Crying It Out

Huh. People feel strongly about their kids and how they and their kids sleep. Very surprising. I’ve spent the spare moments of this weekend skimming through the comments. The best are in the 400+ range where they claim that we deprived our child from love, food and care. Yes. We run a virtual Abu Ghraib of parenting over here.

I never felt an ounce of guilt for sleep training Leta. I never, for a second, felt that letting her cry it out was “wrong” or “bad” or “child abuse”.

I was more worried about Heather than Leta, because after a relatively short period of time (Leta has been alive for 112 weeks, her sleep training took two weeks, that’s less than two percent of her life thus far and that number will diminish as she ages), Leta got over it and she gets the sleep she needs, but Heather was already depressed and anxious, and this rough period didn’t help. Human beings need sleep, including babies and their parents.

Lest you blame the method for Heather’s post-partum depression, I believe that Heather was about to go over the edge whether we sleep trained Leta or not. Leta was colicky. She cried a lot. She was fussy. But the sleep training was the experience that pushed Heather the furthest away from where she wanted to be. To blame sleep training or the method we used is incorrect. The problem was chemical, not that our child had a messed up nursing schedule and wasn’t getting enough sleep. Anything could have done it, it just happened to be sleep training and pacifier elimination.

I don’t expect that everybody agrees with me about the next statement I’m going to make. We are built for sleep and one of the best things I can do is as a parent is give my children the ability to get themselves to sleep on a schedule that makes their lives better with a side benefit that their parents lives will be better, too. Screaming because she didn’t like that it was time for bed? Sorry, but that’s non-negotiable. I don’t want to have a five year old who, when it’s time for bed, does hours of arguing about bedtime because I screwed up and didn’t teach them how to sleep. So hey six-month-old, you just complain all you want. Eventually you are going to sleep. Does that sound cold? Pediatricians and sleep experts say that children should sleep a certain amount of hours. Leta sleeps those hours because we taught her to put herself to sleep. She’s not perfect and sometimes her naps are too short or she wakes up early. But on average, she’s happier and healthier because she gets the sleep she needs and has done so most of her life.

We’ll have to train Leta to use a toilet. We’re training her to brush her teeth. How is sleep different? She cries all the time about a million things. Some of the cries tug the hell out of my heart, but many of them don’t. They just try my patience. I worry about my kid when she’s crying, but when we’re making a point and she’s crying… that’s just complaining. It’s not a plea for a better life or clemency or better food it’s complaining because she doesn’t want to be where she needs to be. In my view, my job as a parent is to look after my kid and help her in life. Sometimes she’s not gonna like it. She needed to learn how to get herself back to sleep. That’s something that is going to last a lifetime, why not start it up right?

Every person we’ve had tend Leta comments on how amazing it is that she goes to bed without a fight. There is value in our home that this is the case. Maybe that choice isn’t one you care about or want to make, and that’s totally fine. It’s your right and your life.

I don’t think it’s somehow wrong to let a six-month-old cry because we’re trying to teach her something she is ready to learn. We know that for our child more than other parents know it for our child and I don’t know what your kids need to learn when. So before you comment, I don’t care what method you used. I don’t care if you didn’t like the method we chose. Our baby sleeps and sleeps well. It’s made an enormous difference in our home for all the people who live here. The baby gets her sleep. Heather and I have time in the evenings to be together, work on things that we like to work on and chill out from the day. We don’t have a huge chaotic night. It’s really nice and helps us face the next day with a sense of renewal. Leta is a happy, rested child. But she’s two, so that means typical two behavior. We know it’s not because she’s tired. Our choice fits us and I hope that we will be able to do it with our next child, whenever that child might arrive. Chuck is also happier as the quiet lets him reflect on his trials with nihilism, Einstürzende Neubauten and Kant.

  • http://www.jonandnic.com codepoet80

    Dude, I completely agree. I love dooce​.com, I love your parenting thoughts, and I love that you tell it like it is!

  • trublu76

    As parents, we do what we have to do in order to 1) teach our children how to be responsible and contributing members of society and 2) keep ourselves in the right state of mind to be able to be responsible and contributing members of society. Sometimes that means making choices that some will agree with and some won’t. No one outside of my immediate family is effected by my choices regarding my parenting, so anyone who doesn’t agree can bite my ass. These are my kids, I have to live with the consequences of my parenting choices, so it is in my best interest to make the decision that best suits MY FAMILY and MY CHILDREN.
    I commend you and Heather for making difficult choices and for discussing them. I’m sorry the mean internet people can’t accept that the decision is/was yours and yours alone to make, but I appreciate that you both are willing to share with us your stories.

  • http://www.alisonbryan.com/blog Alison

    What you did Deaf people have been doing for centuries!

    Deaf people’s babies are the most quiet babies ever (well at least before flashing gadgety things). Baby learns that crying doesn’t get their parent’s attention, and thus shuts up. Nothing wrong with the kids when the grow up.

    Those who are objecting, are also literally saying that Deaf people are unfit to be parents! Not true.

    As for depression / anxiety, its chemical. If you have a broken leg, cancer, etc, you treat them as genuine illnesses and not blame some external factor. Why can’t people see a) your brain is as much as a body organ as say your liver and b) it is subject to getting ill as the rest of you.

    Are people thick or something?

  • Ms Sisyphus

    Jon, I’m not “a hater” and I agree with you that you have every right to parent Leta in a way that works for you, (so long as you operate within some pretty clear common sense guidelines, which clearly, you do). However, I’m uncomfortable with this post. Not because you sleep trained Leta. Your kid, your choices. But because in defending that action, there’s an underlying sense of judgement in this post that those of us who don’t agree with your methods and chose to do it differently are wrong. I’m a bit disappointed, actually. It’s not the type of thing I’m used to seeing here.

  • http://mihow mihow

    “blurb says:

    I’m certainly not suggesting that the method we used is the only or best method. It just worked for us, that is all.”

    We know you’re not saying it’s the best method. If you were saying it was the best method you’d be saying so on someone else’s blog by letting them know how wrong they are with their method.

  • http://www.ragandboneshop.net Wayne

    I didn’t think that Jon was suggesting that one method was the best or only method. And I didn’t think he was judging choices other people make — just explaining the reasons for his choice. I DID start to get a feeling of judgment from a few of the comments that came after, though.

  • Meranath

    Not to worry!

    If Leta gets really screwed up *specifically because of this sleep method*, I will personally fund her treatment/housing/private schooling/bail.

    There. Now all bases are covered.

  • Caitorade

    Hey there
    I read a few of the comments on Heather’s site and, mostly because I don’t have kids of my own, didn’t add my opinion. But now that I’ve seen both of your entries I’d just like to send out some Congrats. I am also in Developmental Behavior (as is one of your more –ahem– “vocal” commenters on dooce) and I see no problem in setting BOUNDARIES for your child.
    Does this person really think that Leta believes you don’t love her? You dedicate world-public posts and share records of her learning to speak! (oh, but you don’t give her gummy bears-i forgot). ;)
    That’s love and devotion. Someday, Leta will tell you that she has the most supportive and caring parents in the world, because you taught and allowed her to become an independent person. NOT, “Mom? I’m 22…could you please stop coddling me and let me manage my own life?“
    Kudos ;)

  • http://bigdlittledmistatruffyandme.blogspot.com Karen Rani

    I applaud both of you for not only taking a wonderful approach to your parenting decisions (and doing as a team), but for also standing behind your decisions on your sites.

    Visitors to our house (with kids and without) are dumbfounded, and impressed when Troll Baby goes to bed every night at 7 p.m., with little or no fussing. We too, can enjoy our evenings, which includes time with Dylan (our 7 year old), and then time together after Dylan goes to bed at 8.

    Back when TB was between 4 months and 10 months old, I was in the same boat as Heather, fighting PPD and getting very little sleep. We made the decision to let TB cry it out, going back and reassuring him every so often, and within about 2 weeks, he was ‘sleep-trained.’ It was a great relief to my sanity as well. Our theory is “If Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.” Happy Moms make for happy kids — as does sleep, routine, discipline and good nutrition.

    So to all those freaks who want to coddle their kids right up until they flee the nest: GOOD LUCK. See you on Supernanny.

    Oh and to those who feel the need to critisize ANYONE’S parenting decisions, barring real abuse, LOCK IT UP ALREADY.

    Cheers, Armstrongs!

  • dylan

    I’m not a parent, and hopefully won’t be for a few more years, but I do have to say that I think both you and Heather do an amazing job with parenting. Most of the people who post the mean comments on Dooce just don’t understand that can’t always be nice and a good parent. sometime kids need to learn that just because they want something doesn’t mean they are always going to get it there way. I know from reading both of your blogs that you guys don’t do anything that isn’t for the bennifit of all of you. It’s not like you guys locked up Leta and fed her through a hole in her door while sleep training her, all you did was once it was an appropriate time, teach her that she can last an entire night without feeding or waking up. It is not cruel, instead not teaching someone things like good sleeping habbits is the cruel thing.

    You guys are awesome parents, and i see that in *almost* every post i read. (Sometimes Heather makes me laugh so much at dangling Leta from a shopping cart handle or such that who knows what to think) whatever you do, don’t let the few people who refuse to do the research of how to raise children (which you two do so much of) have an impact on you with their opinions.

  • http://www.meretrice.com Meretrice

    To Heather and Jon:

    Amen!

    Although I didn’t read any books about “sleep training,” my husband and I basically used the same technique to train our Daughter how to sleep. Basically, letting her cry it out until she fell asleep. Fortunately for us, our baby was a very good sleeper from Day One. In some ways, too good a sleeper, but that’s another issue.

    The people who would tell you that letting a baby cry it out is cruel, uncaring and abusive need to understand a very simple concept. Well, two concepts:

    1) Parents, no matter what they do, are training their child. The parents that go in to their child’s bedroom every time the child so much as squeeks are TRAINING their child that any noise will bring their parents running. And guess what, children are savvy enough to use that information to start crying when they don’t want to go to bed, when they are bored, etc… As a parent, your job is to train them that their time in bed is for SLEEPING.

    2) What is better for a child? A frustrated, sleep-deprived, ill-tempered parent? Or a parent who is refreshed, composed and patient? Of course, a child needs the second type of parent. Most adults need plenty of rest to be at their best. Training a baby to sleep through the night isn’t just good for the baby in terms of getting on a regular schedule, but it also provides the child with parents who will be at their best.

    Good job Heather and Jon. What you did for Leta was what was best for your ENTIRE family.

    April

  • http://www.blurbomat.com blurb

    Ms. Sisyphus. Stop projecting. Reread what I wrote and my comment earlier (#28). Your discomfort is not my problem, it’s yours. I wasn’t implying any such thing.

  • http://mikelizaidenverizon.net liznboys

    Didn’t these people’s parents teach them the basic rule: “If you can’t say something nice, say nothing at all” ???!!!

    We didn’t do CIO w/our boys b/c I couldn’t do it…we got the sleep issues resolved w/o having to do this. It was getting close, however to me leaving the house so DH could do it (you do what you gotta do). We did work it out, however and our children (6 y/o and 2 1/2 y/o) are asleep 98% of the time by 8pm. There’s the occasional off night (usually caused by us upsetting the routine of the 2 y/o) and night time waking b/c of a nightmare or wetting. We are VERY lucky w/the sleep issues with both boys…and have learned that parenting is cyclical…as soon as we think we can cruise, they throw us a curve ball and we’re back to sqare 1 (or at least square 2) on some issue (whether it’s sleep, eating or atttitude…).

    There are some issues better off not touched upon, breastfeeding, attachment parenting, CIO, spanking, food (making them eat what’s on their plate and not making anything different for the child).…I could go on and on…

    Keep up the fantastic writing (both of you!)

    Liz

  • jnapier

    Loooong time reader (both here and Dooce), first time poster. I was too scared to butt in on Dooce…

    I, too, experienced severe PPD after the birth of my daughter (who, incidentally, is only a couple months younger than Leta). Reading Heather’s blog honestly got me through so many tough times in my life. She wrote exactly what I was feeling in my heart. Because of her, I didn’t feel so alone. I knew that I was going to be okay. She was ultimately the reason I finally got off my ass and got some help.

    We let our daughter CIO for the same reasons as you guys did. I was near breaking from lack of sleep. Anyone that knows anything about PPD knows that lack of sleep is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) triggers of PPD episodes.

    Thank you both so much for being so candid with your experiences. You are both such loving parents. Don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

  • http://www.weaker-vessel.com weaker vessel

    A couple of months ago, I was doing research for an article that dealt with parenting and child development, so I was reading a lot of clinical journals trying to determine which parenting styles have been shown to have the best long-term outcomes. I can’t remember the exact quote or source, but I was struck by the observation of one expert who said something like, the type of parenting that is characterized by a high degree of sentimentality, idealization of the infant/child, and overt, surface-level “niceness” is often not correlated with the best outcomes. Not to suggest that you should be rude to the little rascals to toughen them up, but yeah, setting non-negotiable boundaries and hewing closely to important values is clearly more helpful in the long-term than always doing what may appear to some to be the “nice” thing in any given situation.

  • http://claireseuroamerica.blogspot.com Claire

    Dude, Jon! I just read Heather’s post and many of the 400+ comments. I was thinking, “I wonder what Jon has to say.” And found your post. I don’t have children, but I find that you two are doing a fine job. I started to think of all the crying babies I babysat. Whenever I went in, it was worse, not better. Sometimes I think an older child may have to cry it out. I think I saw this on Dr. Phil once, where he told a family that they were enabling their 5 year old by always going in when he crys.

    Anyway, what the hell do I know. If I ever have kids, I will cross that bridge when I get to it. But do know that I will be keeping your success story in mind.

  • http://www.leapdesign.com/upsideup UpsideUp

    i don’t believe in letting my children cry, so this one time, when my twins wanted to run out into the street i told them it wasn’t a good idea, but they started crying because they really really wanted to, so i let them do it, because they know what they need and they needed to run out into the street. unfortunately, one of them got hit by a car, so that’s sad. but the other one didn’t and her needs *were* taken care of, so that’s good. also, i really love it when everyone i know (and even strangers i meet at la leche league meetings and whole foods) tells me all the ways i could be a better mom and also all the ways i’m doing things wrong. i don’t know how else i would learn anything. i mean, for real.

  • ImTheFunkyMonkey

    I absolutely completely agree with your decision to sleep train Leta. First, as an adult, who can control their emotions and their reactions, I still get really crazy when I fon’t get enough sleep. I am irritable and emotional and really nutty. No child should have to suffer those types of feelings just because their parents allow them to rebel against getting enough sleep.

    Secondly, I volunteer in a shelter for babies born addicted to drugs and alcohol — and the one thing they try DESPERATELY to teach children is how to soothe themselves back into a comfortable sleep. Babies NEED sleep — it is instrumental to their health. Allowing a child to cry until they cry themselves to sleep is NOWHERE near abuse — I personally believe it is far more abusive to allow a child to be deprived of sleep because you allow them to wake up all night because you are fearful of letting them cry.

  • annak

    you know what is REALLY upsetting about all of this?

    it’s that last night i cried for at least 6 hours, alone, in a cold, dark, scary room full of monsters.

    and jon and heather never showed up.

    i think they must not love me.

    —-

    i am a childless 35 year old woman with years and years of day-care and babysitting experience as my only reference point.

    however, i will say without any confusion that it was a wonderful and far too rare have a child that knew how to go to sleep at night/naptime rather than stand in the crib and wail until the parents got home or came to pick them up.

    unless you plan on never having anyone else care for your child, of course. in that case, wake up every 2 hours to nurse them until they are five or whatever.

    but don’t blame the babysitter for never coming back.

  • Leon

    I always figured Chuck as a Wittgenstein man myself. I eagerly await the definitive Chuckles masterwork, the Chucktatus.

    But, I digress…

    I just wanted to offer up a simple and heartfelt thank you to the Blurbodoocery (and all other parents for the that matter) for the painstaking work of child-rearing. Thanks for keeping the species alive, because my wife and I want nothing at all to do with that business.

    We owe you guys, and we know it.

  • Elise

    I see the sleep training post as an interesting experiment in group dynamics — ultimately people can’t seem to resist the urge to destroy each other; so Lord of the Flies. The way the commenters starting attacking each other under the guise of defending the blog owner was pretty wild. The ability to listen to another person’s opinion without judgement, to really hear what someone else is saying and accepting it as their reality, their experience, apparently it’s pretty rare. I think you two practice this principle in your writing, it’s one of the things that keeps me checking in.

  • sharkcutie

    Bravo! Bravissimo! The painstaking and painful work is important now because Leta will be thirteen someday and may become, as my daughter has, the Olympic gold medal winner of eye-rolling!!!! While you are teaching Leta, you are also teaching yourself about how to be a good parent! There is no one way unless you are a repug and a former child star on The Facts of Life. Those people put tabasco sauce on their saucy-tongued children’s tongues!

  • bsl

    i don’t have kids, but i am an aunt, and i really wish my sister would have trained my nieces to sleep. they are 4 and 6, and getting them to sleep is still a chore. it affects the entire family and anyone who happens to be at the house at bedtime. the house has to be dark, a kid-friendly movie put on, there’s rocking, song singing, stories, fighting, etc. if i make too much noise and the girls hear, the whole process has to start over.

    and it is especially crazy since both my sister and i had strict bedtimes growing up…if it was bedtime we brushed our teeth, put our pj’s on and went to bed. no stories, nothing. occasionally we would try to negotiate to stay up later, but only in special circumstances did we ever win. heck, i had an unofficial bedtime til my junior year of high school! i needed to get my nine hours of sleep or i would be a complete bear. so, every night at 9:30, my mom would “suggest” that it was time to go to bed. and i usually did! i am 30 years old and still go to bed by 10:30 on most nights, if i can. and if i can go to bed by 9:30…even better! my friends laugh, but even big girls need their sleep.

  • Kate

    As a still new mom of a one-year old, I can only say one thing with certainty–parenting is the hardest thing I have ever done.

    It is more exhausting, joyful, frustrating, mind-numbing, tear-inducing and hilarious than I ever thought it would be. I believe that whatever decisions most of us make as parents, we do so with the absolute best for our children in mind. We don’t arrive at these conclusions by chance or because they are the easiest option. We labor over them for days, weeks, months and sometimes we still doubt ourselves.

    I will never be able to understand how people will so quickly and so maliciously tear down others, especially other parents who know how hard this is. We’re all just trying to do the best we can for our families.

  • annak

    and i clearly shouldn’t be having kids anytime soon, i’m not even literate.

    that’s what i get for editing too much and too hastily.

    oy.