The Mormons and The Gays

When the Mormon church asked for its members to send money to California to support the “Knight Initiative” in 1999, it countersunk the holes the church had already drilled in my dead beliefs. The Knight Initiative became Proposition 22 in 2000 and was intended to ban gay marriage in California. Prop. 22 was passed by over 60% of the state. I was not among those who voted in favor of Prop. 22 and that the Mormons got involved opened my eyes to the politics of hate coming from Salt Lake. I have friends who were conveniently away from church that day, but it didn’t lessen the awakening sting of realization.

The irony of my discomfort with churches being political isn’t lost. If it wasn’t for church organizations in the south in the 50s and 60s, where would the civil rights movement be today?

However, the fundamental difference is easy to see for me; asking for rights and denying rights seem to have a clear demarcation in American churches. Asking for humans to be treated as equals would seem to follow Christian ethics and mores. Today, most churches want to take away rights or “defend” a status because they feel threatened or believe that God will punish those who believe differently. Is this so different than what was being said about African Americans in the mid-20th century by those who didn’t want to grant equal status?

Last week, the Mormons who attended church services were read a letter (PR release from church) from the leaders in Salt Lake. The letter tells the followers that they need to contact their Senators and voice their support for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and defining marriage as between a man and a woman. There are a couple of ironies in the anti-gay stance of the church in this instance. First, the church allows men to have plural “eternal” wives by allowing them to remained sealed for all time and eternity despite a secular divorce. So a man marries a woman in the mormon temple. They later divorce. He remarries another woman in the temple. Without going through a “temple” divorce, the church allows him to keep his temple marriage to the first wife and the second wife. Polygamy. So much for “a man” and “a woman”.

The second irony is that church marriages in the Mormon temples in England (at least when I was there) weren’t recognized by the state as being legitimate. Mormon couples had to first be married in a “civil” ceremony (which could be performed by a Mormon bishop) and then travel to the temple for the temple ceremony. The couple was not allowed to consummate their marriage until the temple ceremony had been performed. This discrimination against the church and its teachings might lead one to think that the church would warrant a more open, accepting stance on marriage issues.

In my idealistic mind, I’ve always felt the church could take the lead on being open about marriage. Not so much “open” marriage, but open to the idea that it’s not just “a man” and “a woman”. A chance to lead, not follow.

I remember having a discussion about ten years ago with a friend about how political the church is and how they trod dangerously close to the law when doing so. He was shocked and denied that the church would do any such things. I believe most members agree. Here are some examples of the kind of political thinking that most Mormons in Utah exhibit.

While the church, indeed any church, has the right to lobby its members, not all members agree with the church’s stance. I wonder how long he’s going to have his job at BYU…

In an election year where the GOP hasn’t shown a lot of leadership ability, they know it’s over unless they can somehow divide and conquer. What better than a wedge issue? Are you buying it?

  • http://www.eighthourlunch.com Eight Hour Lunch

    This one’s a sore spot for me. You see, someone at my wife’s work sent out an email to everyone in the company asking for support and listing the contact info of our elected officials. This person said that people should get in touch with them and tell them of our opposition to gay marriage. This person has a PhD! Only one problem…I’m *not* opposed to it.

    People here wonder why I could ever possibly get pissed off at the local culture. Hmm…maybe it’s because I don’t like people assumming that because I’m a good person I must be(or should become) Mormon. Maybe I don’t like people making assumptions about my beliefs. Maybe I don’t like narrow minded bigots who try to tell me and my wife what’s best for us.

    One of the reasons I stay in this state is because I enjoy the thought that maybe I’m diluting the insanity somehow.

  • http://monkeyswithfezzes.blogspot.com Varla

    Excellently written, and thoughtful. I didn’t grow up Mormon, but did grow up non-denominational Christian, and have always felt the hypocrisy in the stated beliefs that we are supposed to love everyone…but not the people who aren’t like us, apparently.

    The idea that gay marriage somehow diminishes the sanctity of straight marriage is so ridiculous to me…

    Thanks for keeping it real, Jon. ;)

  • http://kristied.blogspot.com KristieD

    I have used the same example before: what is so different now with gay people. what is it gonna hurt to let them get married. we (by “we” i mean straight people) have already gone and fucked up the ‘sanctity of marriage’ by having a divorce rate of somewhere between 50 &60% (depending on which stats you believe). shoot– 50–60 years ago it was illegal to have interracial marriages. A white marrying a black was a crime. it was seen in some areas as a sin b/c apprarently God placed the different races on different continents to keep us from intermingling. (a judge actually said that during some court case– i have the references somewhere…) But now– most people accept that it is ok for a black person to marry a white person. and the world didnt end. Children didnt grow up maimed or psychologically more dysfunctional than before. So whats the big friggin deal with gay marriage. i just dont get it.

  • http://jimmyfromshinagawa.blogspot.com/ Knotty

    Have you read Krakauer’s ‘Under The Banner of Heaven’? He explores Mormon Polygamy and Fundamenatalism. The more history I read, the more I understand that Religion is ALL about politics and power.

  • moxyoron

    Holy crap. I can not believe a faculty member of BYU would be so bold — please post and let us know when it is announced that he has been axed, and or, exed. Wow. I agree with everything he said, but what a bold move on his part. It almost doesn’t even seem real that he said all of that. What I don’t understand is how he can say the things he said and still include himself as a member of the church. I grew up Mormon, and until a year or so ago I was extremely devout, and then I really started questioning things. I was furious when I heard about this letter that was read at church. My ex husband is gay — a former RM, BYU grad. If he hadn’t felt so compelled to try to be straight, he wouldn’t have married me and had a child, only to come home 4 years after the fact to announce he couldn’t pretend anymore. I don’t believe you can repent yourself straight…

  • nukediver

    Sigh. Every day I am thankful that I live here in NJ. We may have the most people crammed into the smallest amount of space; horrific traffic, even at 2 a.m.; and the highest incidence of cancer in the US, but most people here could care less that I have chosen to spend my life with another woman, and wish only the best for us, and that would include everyone in my church. I think what frustrates me the most with this issue is that for the most part, the people pushing their right-wing, “family values” agenda are not stupid, but for some reason, with this issue they have checked their brains at the door.

  • http://www.canyonjam.net erat

    Every time the Bush camp wants to wag the dog they throw down the gay marriage/family values card. They did it in 2004 and it worked like a charm. They’re doing it again for the mid-term elections and folks — as expected — are taking the bait hook, line, and sinker.

    I’m not saying it shouldn’t be discussed; it’s an important issue so discussion is vital. I’m just saying the only reason it’s coming up again is because the neo-cons have no other umbrella under which they can unite and it’s the only hot topic that’s almost guaranteed to distract from the issues that’ll hurt the GOP the most.

    Think about it: the war in Iraq is a sore spot and will continue to be so until (Bush speaking here) a future president decides to pull out; there’s no way in hell the US is going to back a war in Iran; folks in congress who advocate wiretapping are themselves pissing and moaning now that congressmen are being spied upon (William Jefferson anyone?); etc. Neo-cons have spent all their political capital, leaving only one dog wagger: gay marriage. You better believe they’re going to try to hinge humanity on a constitutional amendment as the midterm elections approach.

    By all means, keep pressure on your politicians to prevent a constitutional amendment. If you could, though, try not to let this become the distraction that the GOP hopes it will become. If that happens, we’ll have yet another election where the left was supposed to win but the right prevailed anyway.

    Just my $0.02.

  • http://www.daveheinzel.com daveheinzel

    I’ve never been a fan of religion because too many religious people have tried to tell me how to live my life and what I should believe. I don’t particularly care people who impose their beliefs on others, and more often than not they just come across as insecure and scared.

    If two people are willing to commit to marriage, I don’t think their sexes should be taken into consideration. Seems like nitpicking really, and it’s not like it degrades other peoples’ marriages.

    One day this will all be behind us. It’s just very painful witnessing the resistance.

  • http://www.jenjennyjennifer.typepad.com jenjennyjennifer

    Just a couple comments to a couple of comments. Nukediver, I don’t think it really matters where you live, it’s just that Jon is stating what he sees in Utah because of the prevalence of the mormon church here. I just moved back to Utah from the Texas bible-belt and believe me, I heard a ton of crap down there as well in regards to homosexuality and how marriage should be between a man and a woman only. I actually know quite a few people here in Utah whom are gay and they LOVE living here, even with the religious mumbo jumbo because as they say, “we’d hear it wherever we live, we might as well have a nice view.” And threehourlunch, I grew up in Utah and I was always told, “wow, you’re such a great person with great morals, you’d make a really good mormon!” Well, that’s offensive, are people who are of other religions not good people with good morals? That one statement gets on my last nerve! I’d usually just say, “yeah, but I make a really GREAT Catholic.”

  • http://frecklefacegirl.blogspot.com/ Freckle Face Girl

    Iíve been lurking for a while, but I thought this was an especially interesting post. It seems like all organized religions try to create a cohesiveness among their members by using the ìus vs themî mentality. In reality, it just means everyone suffers. The sad thing is that many followers refuse to see the hypocrisy. What happened to not judging others and loving everyone?

  • MissingInIraq

    Thank you for posting the link to the Tribune article. It’s always encouraging to read thoughtful responses like this from within the culture. I too am an ex-mormon and I’m often discouraged by the ‘my church right or wrong’ tendencies, particularly given the history of about-faces and fundamental doctrine alterations.

    I know so many people who still find good things in the mormon church. If only they could accept that others find good things without it!

  • http://therambleroom.blogspot.com Hemlock

    It is exactly this that pushes me away from organized religion.

    That someone or some group believe that they can tell me what to do really bothers me. I am a good person and I don’t need to sit in a church every Sunday for this to be true.

    What harm is done by allowing two people who love each other, to marry? Seriously!! How does allowing two women or two men to marry attack the sanctity of marriage?

    If two people love each other, that’s all I need as proof.

    Unfortunately our current government wants to re-open the debate about gay marriage.

    This debate enrages me.

  • quiltingmama

    Your post was very timely for me. I was lucky enough yesterday to go to a gay ‘wedding’. It was in a Lutheran church in Seattle and though not ‘legal’ it was very meaningful. From their wedding bulletin: “We hope that someday marriage equality will be a reality for us in a nation that values the principles of equality for all.” That is my hope also for them and all gay and lesbian couples.

    I am glad I was raised Lutheran — a denomination that is based on the question “What does this mean?”. However, I have gotten to the point that I am not sure I want to call myself a “Christian”. I don’t like being lumped in with the rest of the crowd. I prefer to call myself a follower of Christ. I liked his politics. He loved the sinners — all of them — and rebuked those who thought they were better than others. He also helped the sick, hungry, mistreated, etc. I am now at the point that I figure it is my job to live a good life, love my neighbors (all of them), help those less fortunate than I and leave the judging to God. When I face God at the pearly gates (s)he isn’t going to ask me about everyone else’s life, (s)he is just going to be asking me about mine. (S)he will take care of everyone else the same way. I also have come to the conclusion that there is really only one God in this universe, we each just perceive God in the way that we can best grasp the concept. That means Christians, Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.

  • http://www.skowronek.org skowronek

    Interesting that Websters now also defines ‘marriage’ as “the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage”. As a practicing (or at least what I term practicing) ‘Mormon’, it doesn’t surprise me the church’s stance on this subject. This is nothing new and will probably never change (http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161–1-11–1,00.html). Neither should it I think. I know quite a few ‘gay’ people, and to be honest, many of them think making ‘same-sex marriage’ legal is not the way to resolve the issue. Marriage (according to the book Skowronek) is and should be as it was “originally” intended, between a man and woman for the purpose of procreation and raising a family. Now, if you want to create another sort of ‘union’ irrespective of ‘marriage’, be my guest, just don’t call it ‘marriage’, call it something like…“garriage” or something like that!

  • http://bananie.com bananie

    quilting mama, what a lovely statement. thank you much.

    i’m (somehow) still a christian, though a wavering one, and i live in texas, formerly tennessee, where i had the “pleasure” of coming out. when i saw that they’re dredging up the issue again, i rolled my eyes: here we go. cue james dobson. action!

    i have no idea what to do with the crazy divisiveness and arrogance of the amendment issue. taking the longview, i am confident that this period in our nation’s history will go down as the “wtf era”, wherein americans took fundamentalism to a whole new level of fun.

    but now? i’m in a committed relationship (and thanks to my employer, we can share benefits, at least), and we would really like to start a family. i cannot put into words the indignity of the hurdles we have to jump just to adopt. in most cases, one of us has to be “roommate”, and the other “single parent”. not only can we not marry, we have to lie in order to have a family.

    longview, longview, and keep my sense of humor. that’s become my mantra.

  • http://perfectpeacefarm.blogspot.com gordon

    I attend a, well lets just say a popular branch of protestant christianity in the South with conservative beliefs. Our pastor forunately has only brought up the official position of the church on a few ocassions. I kinda wish he didn’t bring it up at all for two reasons: A) When he was first being considered as pastor I asked him in public if he believes in bringining politics to the pulpit. He said no and well, here he goes. B) But more importantly, it not just a wedge issue in Washington, D.C. politics. Its a wedge issue in the Chrisitian church and it is distracting us from Jesus’ main charge to spread the Good News.

  • http://joansyrambles.blogspot.com jonell

    I think it’s interesting, and good, that Senate Minority Leader and Mormon Harry Reid is opposed to the amendment. http://​www​.reviewjournal​.com/​l​v​r​j​_​h​o​m​e​/​2​0​0​6​/​J​u​n​-​0​4​-​S​u​n​-​2​0​0​6​/​n​e​w​s​/​7​7​7​5​0​6​4.html

    I wish he were opposed to all discrimination against gays and not just the constitutional amendment, but I’m pleased that he’s going against his church’s position on this issue.

  • Ames

    I can almost predict when the administration will trot this one out–it’s all about stroking the base…all those ‘other’ issues be damned!!

  • Courtney Santo

    I am mormon. My husband, a convert, and I raised eyes at each other when the letter was read last week. We live in Memphis and I’ve read your and your wife’s blogs for about three years. This is my first post. There are several points I’d like to add to your commentary.

    1. As you pointed out, of all the conservative churches, our church should not be wading into the “what defines a marriage” debate. Because of past and current practices.

    2. It irritates me that the church doesn’t push community involvement (contacting your local government officials) until it suits its purpose. I would prefer more ongoing and continuous discussion of how being a good latter-day saint means involvement in your community.

    3. If any change needs to be made to the current laws it is the following. Replace all marriages with civil unions. Open civil unions to all adults who are interested in a legally binding their lives and resources together. Reserve marriage as a seperate distinction to be applied for at one’s church of choice. Obviously some churches will choose not to perform same sex marriages.

    And last, there are much bigger issues in our world right now. Anyone who watched the recent report on foster children should recognize this is a much bigger threat to family than gay marriage. I’d like to see a letter encouraging support for that read on the pulpit. :) .

    And were still happily mormon.

  • http://dicentra.diaryland.com alina m.

    Thank you so much for this post, and for the link to Jeffery Nielsen’s article. I’m a member of the church here in Salt Lake City, and had to close my eyes and perform breathing exercises to get through the reading of that letter. It’s good to know that other people in the church feel the way I feel, and are speaking out about it. Sometimes I feel like a red poppy in a field of white roses.

  • http://www.deegsie.com anna nic

    I’m in Massachusetts, one of the first states to truly legalize and recognize gay marriage. We may seem more open than others, and we definitely are a pretty damn liberal state (I’ve only known about 5 Republicans in my whole life), but it’s not really an attitude of open acceptance. It’s more “you stay out of my business, I’ll stay out of yours”. Surprisingly, it makes us pretty open to acceptance of others.

    The strangest thing is that we have a Mormon Governor without having a really significant Mormon population. He tries to block all of the gay legislation that hits his desk, but never gets away with it for more than a day. Lately, he passed a bill that allowed Catholic orphanages to refuse adoption to gay couples based on religious principle. The Mass. chapter of the ACLU practically showed up at his office with bats and torches for that one. We all really get a kick out of his antics, let me tell you.

    It’s strongly rumored he may run for President next election year, too. So BEWARE MITT ROMNEY. He’s pretty much a joke here and his “No Child Left Behind” Act has caused a massive surge in drop-out rates as well.

  • Leeloo

    I’m a lifelong Mormon, though not an unquestioning sheep as we are sometimes mislabeled. I was not able to attend church yesterday, but the reading of the letter would have rankled me. I’m politically conscious, I don’t need the church/state boundary crossed to awaken me to awareness, although as demonstrated by our nation’s pathetically low voter turnouts, such a lack of awareness is not merely a Mormon thing. I can’t speak for all Mormons, but here’s the thing with me and my husband:

    * We can’t stand Bush. However, we couldn’t stand Clinton, either (although we both really dug that Hope Credit!)
    * We hate abortion. However, we do not think that Roe v Wade could ever be legislated against in a way that would cause anything but total public outcry and a return to back-alley abortions, not to mention the fact that a certain percentage of unplanned pregnancies happen to people who would make crappy or at the very least, unprepared parents. Therefore, we err on the side of caution and say we hate abortion, but don’t see it going away, and we do whatever we can to foster and support positive parenting, no matter what the scenario.

    * We have no problem with the idea of gays receiving civil relationship consideration and benefits. We don’t like it called ‘marriage’. Marriage, to us, is not a civil principle, it’s a religious one, and no religious doctrine that we are aware of in either our religion or any other major religion on earth states that marriage in the religious sense is between anything other than a man and a woman.

    I follow your train of thought on the plural marriage conundrum, Jon, and I don’t mean to stray into Feelingsville rather than Doctrineville. I honestly believe, though, that as with many of the conundrums inherent to humanity and religion here on Earth, this will be sorted out not just to everyone’s satisfaction in the next life, but to each individual person’s utter total contentment and happiness, no matter what side of the fence we find ourselves and our beliefs. (I know this sounds like the old “You may not believe in God, but He believes in you” platitude, but oh well.)

    It pains me to admit that there are a few things I might never completely understand, or truly come to terms with about my religion, but the same holds true for many things about the human condition that have nothing at all to do with religion. In these situations, I opt to learn what I can from all available sources, then determine my personal beliefs and path based on what feels right. That this path nearly always aligns itself with Mormon tenets is what has kept my beliefs firm in times of trial, and has kept me a member of this faith. However, I realize that it does not always work in this fashion for everyone, and I truly appreciate your honesty and your viewpoint, Jon.

  • http://rivetergirl.blogspot.com rivetergirl

    Oh yes, this is a diversion, to say the least.

    I don’t understand the thought that a marriage ó a union between two people who choose to share their lives together ó can only be legitimate based on the number of penises and vaginas.

    Why does one’s genitalia dictate to whom they can wed?

  • HalfwayCrucified

    This issue is disgusting in so many ways.

    First, I ask the same question that everyone else who objects to this amendment asks: How does allowing gay couples to marry make *my* marriage any less precious? What constitutional rights will I be denied if a gay couple are allowed the same kind of civil union that I have with my wife?

    ‘Sancity of Marriage’: What an absurd premise to base a constitutional amendment upon. This movement is bred in intolerance and hatred, pure and simple.

    Second, as erat points out, it should be obvious to anyone what Bush and the neocons are doing–fanning the fire of hate to get through the midterm elections. Nobody’s buying the war lies any more, people are starting to wise up to the abuses of power, and they’ve stuck their head in the sand on immigration. This is the only thing they have left to keep their brain dead, bible-thumping hate mongers in line.

    Finally, the mormon church’s inconsistency on this issue as it relates to polygamy turns my stomach: The principle of polygamy is alive and well in mainstream mormondom. It always has been, and it always will be.

    It’s true that a man can’t be married to more than one woman at a time, but as Jon points out, a civil divorce does not automatically dissolve a temple marriage in the eyes of the church. Likewise, if a man’s spouse dies and that man marries another woman in the mormon temple, the church recognizes that man as being married to both women. Even so, Gordon B. Hinckley has no problem with going on TV and proclaiming “We gave up the practice of polygamy in the nineteenth century!”

    Liar.

    As Mr. Nielsen so boldly points out, if the mormons are really serious about this “one man, one woman” thing they need to quit being two-faced and shitcan polygamy ALL THE WAY. But doing that opens up a whole different can of worms for them, doesn’t it? Maybe they should just keep their mouth shut.

    Excellent article, Jon. At least you don’t have to worry about losing your job (unless some obscure grammar error pissed dooce off).

    PS — Can you believe Nielsen really had the cajones to go public with that editorial? It will really be interesting to see how this all pans out.

  • http://www.pilgrimgirl.blogspot.com pilgrimgirl

    Fortunately a bunch of us Mormons knew that the letter was going to be read last Sunday, and each arrived a church with pro-gay marriage bumper stickers on our cars. We arrived especially early and parked right by the front door so everyone entering the building would notice.

    Here’s my blogpost about the bumper sticker campaign (which began in April when the church issues its first press release supporting a constitutional amendment to support ‘traditional marriage’):
    http://​pilgrimgirl​.blogspot​.com/​2​0​0​6​/​0​4​/​a​m​e​n​d​m​e​n​t.html