I wonder what will happen when these kids see that it’s not so bad “out there”. What will happen if down the line the courts order them back home, for example, and they don’t want to go?

I think most of the evil done in the world is done by people who claim they are religious. They interpret the laws of their God to commit rape, murder, theft, torture and cruelty.

Texas authorities did the right thing, and those mothers complaining on the Today Show are getting no sympathy from me.

I think people who claim to be religious fundamentalists are actually really stupid. Just as fables are told to children to help explain things they can’t understand, so do adults of limited intelligence need parables to explain the world that they are too dumb to understand. Sadly, stupid people are usually also vicious and cruel.

However, I do feel sorry for the mothers. Most of these women were BORN into the FLDS society and religion. They don’t know any different. They didn’t know they were perpetuating the abuse of their children. I’m sure most of the men don’t realize it either. This is what a cult does — brainwashes. The FLDS has had YEARS to cultivate these activities and thought processes.

I feel sad for those women and their children to be separated. Does a 4-year old understand why its mother is not there to comfort? I can’t imagine the fear these children are going through, and the agony of separation the mothers are feeling. Not knowing that a wrong was being committed must surely cause a lot of agony in their minds.

But no matter what — I think the Texas authorities made the correct decision.

This community has committed a number of crimes, and whether they were done in the name of Yahweh, Kali or the prophet’s own personal penis is irrelevant. The law is the same for everyone, and these kids should be protected from abuse. A pregnant 14-year-old qualifies as abuse, at least on this soil and in this century.

The abuse of women and children, and the systematic brainwashing of the men in this group is appalling. Considering the ages of these teenage mothers and their certain fates prior to the compound raid, how could we as a country have allowed this to continue? No one sees anything wrong with removing any other adult from society after they’ve abused a teenager — in fact, we demand it! This has ZERO to do with “religious expression.” It has only to do with these men being raised to be predators.

Also, just an afterthought, but the research I’ve done on the practice of polygamy in the LDS church (albeit somewhat limited) indicates it was a relatively small number of families involved, there was mutual agreement between husband & wife about the arrangement or else it wouldn’t happen, and there wasn’t all this “marrying a teenager” stuff going on. Like I said, my reading is somewhat limited, but I certainly never saw even the slightest suggestion of abuse in any form.

Emily and Mark, the FLDS group hasn’t been associated with the Mormons for over 100 years.

@Sally Fulton:
“She had the time and space to go to college, have a career AND have children, because there were sister wives to take care of her children. When asked about jealousy, she said take this out of the bedroom and into the kitchen and living room where most of your life happens and jealousy becomes less of an issue. To her, the pros far outweighed the cons.”

So, when placed within the boundaries of my questions, I suppose this labels “consensual” polygamy as nothing more than pecuniary arrangements? It’s wonderful for this plural wife to have time to learn and work and establish herself outside of the home, but because she purports jealousy as an extended branch of her relationships with her husband and sister wives, I can’t see why this band of brides can’t draw up a financial adviser or their attorney(s) and plan out an economic network that won’t bind them all in a convoluted legal nightmare (economists, help me out?). If it is permissible to apply this particular wife’s characteristics to the rest, each seems perfectly capable of standing as her own individual–but rather than applying herself as an independent woman, it seems to me that she (and this might be too pretentious to say, but–) chooses to milk her sister wives into handling the little things that she can’t juggle into her regular schedule. What if every one of those wives wanted to have her own time and space to go to college, have a career, and leave the additional childrearing to the other legs of her marital relationship? There isn’t a formula to calculate how many wives a man might need to take in order to balance each other’s differences and desires to avoid potential conflicts between all members.

Although marriage (at least, legal or civil unions–wait, scratch that; “religious” matrimony has often been intertwined with state sanctions), at its very core, is a contract that attends to the provision of economic, political, or social stability (see: Europe and beyond) between two hopefully consenting parties, love and sex have entered, without much argument, as primary reasons or critical components of keeping a relationship alive (from the first Industrial Revolution in Great Britain and onward). If each of these wives has consented to a plural marriage because she truly adores the prospective husband or even desires social stability, then jealousy becomes of increasing importance over its influence on the home; who decides what actions need to be taken when one of the wives or the husband falls ill or dies, etc.? Who has priority and who has superiority? In addition–how does this arrangement affect the mentality and developing mindset of the children? Who should they listen to? Their birth mother or their “aunts/other mothers”? To say that polygamous marriages bring promises of perpetual harmony regardless of the involvement of multiple persons bespeaks of a discomforting presence of “cult of personality” or simple, brainless acquiescence. When a man has to decide which one of his wives he wants to bed one night or another, who says that feelings won’t be hurt or insecurity won’t arise? His devotion is split in numerous directions, so what does he gain from such a bargain? Pure, carnal pleasure? A flourish of pride and flush of male domination from his ability to choose? Ignoring the fact that your husband diligently sleeps with various women you are obligated to deal with every day (or meet on occasion, depending on the array) calls for a compare and contrast on the emotional and mental equality between a husband and one or all of his wives.

Eliminating the notion and diminishing the importance of “love” and “affection” within marriage further devalues the institution to its primitive, political form: a written pact of fiscal and communal agreements meant solely for the bearing and rearing of limitless amounts of children for the sake of society and one’s own bloodline. Equilibrium in tenderness and passion becomes optional and often unachievable when the focus switches to tangible benefits. If society wants to dodge and evade the archaic proposals of mistresses and concubines being placed on equivalent or higher pedestals than one’s wives because marital partners have no obligation to respect nor support one another on a par, than the bedroom plays a vital role in keeping things together. Marriage and friendship and legal liaisons do not equivocate.

But what do I know? Maybe love on multiple planes is within reach and can or will provide a safe, free-thinking, accepting, nonjudgmental environment for all participants. Perhaps religion will not be a factor in making such a decision (though it depends on what people will do to appease the god of Abraham, including following all 600+ biblical decrees to reach salvation and approving plurality of wives).

@Suzanne M
“That, in each of its individual cases, is one priest in a given parish sexually abusing usually a series of children; the solution is to take him away.”

And yet, some archbishops will purposely ignore a priest’s sexual deviancy and reappoint them to another diocese. The Vatican is extremely hesitant on openly acknowledging the extent of not only the sexual exploitation of children as young as four years old (raped, nonetheless), but also the nonconsensual liaisons between priests/missionaries and nuns across as many as 23 different countries—done mostly in fear of contracting venereal diseases from prostitutes. Some offenders even coerce said nuns into having abortions to cover their tracks. And for the devastated families and desolate victims of sexual manipulation? A monetary compensation for them to shut the hell up; I’ve read that the Catholic church has spent something around $2 billion to cover all the lawsuits that have been slapped upon them. Thank the invisible gods for that. The prayers promised on said victims’ behalf by our latest Pope are insufficient compared to the suffering bestowed upon them for fifty abusive years; the Vatican should be shamed and condemned for its aversive response (or no response) to such heinous crimes, and for playing down the severity behind a call to “love your priests.”

@MP (#31)
For the most part: amen.

@Birdy
“…my take on the religion that I believe in is one of choice–above all you are given free agency and YOU must choose right from wrong not be forced to believe and adhere to God’s laws.”

Then should there be organized religion at all? All children are born as atheists and, depending on the household and region in which they are born, they are indoctrinated at an early age—from Sunday school, Bible studies, whatever—of the infallibility or truth behind their “one true faith.” I’ve never heard of a church valiantly preaching and promoting to its members about the many different faiths, like Islam and Judaism (all interlinked with Christianity anyway), or even no faith (atheists), and that they should go out and explore on their own to find one of the many paths to salvation. I’m not trying to pick a fight with malignant intentions, but where in the Bible does it approve the worshipping of “strange” gods? Some worshippers eventually convert to something else or deconvert altogether, but all in all, too many of them become entrenched in the religion they’ve been taught from their youth. Did _they_ decide that they wanted to be Christian/Muslim/Jewish/etc.? Or was that decided for them before they knew enough to understand the differences or even realize the existence of other faiths and non-faiths? What do you think? (Not sarcastic.) Am I misinterpreting?

@Pixielyn
“My hope now is that Texas does the right thing and brings in the best psychotherapists to reprogram and rehabilitate these children in a non threatening manner so that they have a chance at a normal life. Being yanked away from their lives is going to have a huge impact on their future dealings with life.”

One word: YES.

Same to Danny (#36). Also, @bookratt—well said! I didn’t know the depth of financial corruption brewing in the pits of the FLDS community (though I was made aware of the blatant misuse of FLDS tithing funds collected by self-appointed prophets and the illegal seizure and sale of private lands of its members) —I didn’t really think about it from an economic standpoint until now. Thank you so much for enlightening me and adding significant information to the table

@Ngaire
Just curious—to the point of fault many times —but what are your experiences with organized religion? I’m just surprised that an Aussie (awesome) would be paying attention to the legal chaos and pointing fingers storming about the US of A.

@Lyz
“I don’t mean to say, “he who has no sin, cast the first stone”–I mean to say we should all be casting a lot more stones. We should all have the courage of the Texas gov’t and women like Alyssa Walls and stand up for the truth and stand against abuse no matter what the price, because the ultimate reward is truth.”

Some might argue that the argument of “ends justify means” is Machiavellian/REALPOLITIK, but—thank you. Religious toleration and freedom of religion often blinds us or makes us falter in investigating and exposing the uglier side of faith (in this YFZ case, the legal and religious issues are inherently bound to one another, regardless if anyone is brave or stupid enough to admit it).“Justice,” whatever you think it might be, should never be subject to appeasing an ignorant populace.

@Lesley (#57)
That story made me sick to my stomach (and I was eating dinner at the time). Further input from NPR said that only 3 of the children were allowed to live with the “family” upstairs, while the daughter and the rest were forced to survive in a cellar deep enough to mute any cries for help. Those unfortunates have never, until now, seen the light of day. The mother says that she believed “Elis/zabeth” had written a note indicating her leaving the household for good, so she had no reason to suspect any fowl play. Although the daughter and her children seem to be in acceptable condition…

Even animals try to avoid incest—inbreeding can be a mark against a species in turns of survival of the fittest. What kind of hellish bastard is this 73-year-old vampire to leech sexual exploits from his only daughter?! Knowing of the incinerator sickens me exponentially (even if my writing seems relatively calm).