Healthcare Conversation Starter

Over the next little bit, I want to post about healthcare reform in the United States. Before we start calling names and yelling, I thought it might be super fun to see where readers of blurbomat™ stand:

Thanks for playing and stay tuned.

Newer Comments →
  • rac945

    Thanks for starting this discussion. I am a Republican, but I recognize that our healthcare system has a problem. Personally, I believe it is the result of the insurance industry invading the healthcare industry. Obviously, there are other issues; however, I see that as a primary one.

    Before I am vilified for being an R instead of a D, please let me state a couple of things:

    First, I cannot stand Rush Limbaugh. I do not listen to him and never have. I believe he is first and foremost an entertainer and will say whatever he has to inorder to keep his audience entertained and tuning in.

    Second, I am a business owner and employer. Due to the tax filing status of my corporation, I am taxed personally on the health insurance premiums that I and my employees receive as a company benefit.

    Based on previous posts on this site I expect some well written, informed responses to this simple post. I also expect some fairly hateful, intolerant responses because I would dare to be a conservative. Fine.

    Our country has problems. We will not solve them as political parties, but as people. Working together. Nothing else else will work.

    Thank you.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      First, thanks for taking the time to comment.

      Second, how do you feel about a “public option” or a single payer option?

      As a small business owner, health insurance has to be one of the biggest and scariest expenses you face. If we went to a plan like the Netherlands or Germany, wouldn’t that make your business more secure and give you capital to either take as a profit or reinvest? Sure, taxes would go up, but the threat of personal bankruptcy would be greatly diminished, if not removed…

      I don’t care what letter is in front of or behind your name. I want to find out what the real issues are; and what the issues are for those who disagree in a single payer/universal/public option that stop the U.S. from being like every other developed nation in the world.

      I want people to engage their Congress reps and senators.

  • http://keeponsmyelin.blogspot.com/ Nico Blue

    Hmmm, this should be interesting. I’ve always wondered how the healthcare system works in the US compared to here in Canada.

  • http://bluej100.livejournal.com/ bluej100​.livejournal​.com/

    I’m pretty libertarian, but I’ve given a lot of thought to your Twitter posts on health care. I think your “Note to people who don’t want ‘socialism’: Insurance, whether private or public is a communal system. The many pay for few…” was insightful; I’d primarily thought of insurance as an amortization system before, but it also functions as a Rawlsian fortune smoother. It does make sense that protecting everyone from illness would improve overall happiness, though I dislike it on the basic of natural selection and moral hazard.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      As opposed to the current system? :-)

  • imjeffp

    From where I sit, the most rational course is to separate health insurance from employment. My employer doesn’t pay my homeowners or automobile insurance, why should my health coverage be any different?

    Next, the notion of “group” coverage needs to go away. The group consists all all members of the insurer, not smaller random sub-sets.

    I see Medicare as a model to follow, without the age restrictions. You still need some sort of supplemental coverage, and by making individuals instead of employers shop for it, competition should drive down prices. Private insurance doesn’t go away, we all get a raise since our employers don’t have to subsidize our coverage, independent workers like yourself get a break, and the unemployed get some level of basic care without having to resort to visiting the hospital ER.

    • momsquadblog

      I’m a huge proponent for healthcare reform. I fully supported Obama’s plan for UHC, but there was so much misinformation floating around about what exactly he was proposing that I grew frustrated & gave up trying to explain it every which way I turned.

      I disagree with another poster that said group insurance should go away–group insurance is what is protecting so many Americans from the miles-long list of “pre-existing conditions” that healthcare giants use to turn away consumers that are forced to shop around for individual plans. Individual plans have less oversight, so they are plagued with problems (and MUCH higher premiums).

      The focus has to be on getting as many of the uninsured covered as possible–the more people you have “dividing up” the total cost of healthcare, the more money we all save.

      I am a little upset that Democrats are now proposing to tax the premiums we’re all paying–like typical politicians, they’re doing the very thing they said they wouldn’t. http://​online​.wsj​.com/​a​r​t​i​c​l​e​/​S​B​1​2​4​3​5​5​2​8​6​0​3​7​6​6​4​4​2​1.html

      It’s a slap in the face to hard-working Americans that are paying their premiums & still finding themselves bogged down with medical bills. Now they have to pay a tax on top of it?

    • http://blog.ahles.nl/ Patrick

      Separating health insurance from employment might not be a good idea, since your employer actually benefits from you being healthy. Comparing it to homeowners of automobile insurance is comparing apples and oranges.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      I agree that employers should not be responsible for healthcare.

      I also agree that the only group that should exist is one; everybody.

      I also agree about Medicare. I think this is one option that should be explored immediately. Medicare insures a basic level of care, but if you want to buy supplemental insurance you can. Insurance companies should not be allowed to discriminate against anybody. Ever. And they should be non-profit organizations.

  • http://bluej100.livejournal.com/ bluej100​.livejournal​.com/

    On the basis of, rather.

  • ckohout

    When I was in Europe, most folks thought that they paid high taxes and that they got things for their high taxes (health insurance, mass transit, clear air…). In the US everyone thinks that we paid high taxes and nobody can think of a thing that they get for those taxes.

    Until Americans can see what their taxes are buying, I seriously doubt that they will approve a 15%-20% increase in the deficit to pay for some sort of “total coverage” plan.

  • dbarefoot

    I’m Canadian, so suck it.

    Just kidding. We are blessed to have universal healthcare up here. It’s far form perfect (wait lists and a brain drain south are serious problems), but at least every citizen receives a decent level of care.

  • http://surfmonkey89.myopenid.com/ Paul Lukinich

    I think a good first step would be to:
    – remove the insurance obligations from the companies and put it on the government

    - remove the health insurance industry and replacing it with charging the government.

    Put another way, from the mainstream (employed person’s) perspective the process doesn’t change much: you get sick, you go to the doctor, you get treated and it’s paid for (with no deductible/co-pay).

    What really happens is that you’re removing the entire “pre-existing condition” industry, and allowing doctors to treat people in order to make them healthy instead of treating them as a profit center. Then, when the doctor is done, he doesn’t have to go through reams of paperwork. He just passes the bill on to the government, which pays it.

    This is not a difficult problem to solve from the perspective of “what’s the right thing to do, or right place to start”. The difficulty comes in when you have a health insurance industry — which from what I can tell has no reason for existence other than denying people care in order to improve “profits” (as if profits should even exist in this case).

    Unfortunately, I think the reality is that little or nothing will change and we’ll be stuck with this crap system for at least another generation.

  • Lynn

    Looking forward to your posts. I am not the best person at debating policy and when a few high school friends on Facebook the other day were debating me i felt lost. They actually think USA is fantastic to the point that we do NOTHING wrong and that health care for all will leave to communism. Can’t wait for you to help my argument.

  • http://cockatielchaos.blogspot.com/ cockatielchaos​.blogspot​.com/

    If you don’t mind me asking, does your family purchase health insurance as individuals or does Armstrong Media provide your health insurance?

    I’m hoping that we have a major overhaul of the healthcare system. I’ve been watching Massachusetts attempt universal healthcare and I’m horrified when members of Congress suggest that we should copy that model.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      We do not qualify for insurance as a company. We don’t have enough employees.

      Even if we did, the fees would cripple us financially.

      It’s better, even with the high deductible and high monthly premiums, to go the route we have gone, which is to try to get private insurance, fail due to medical discrimination and then be rescued by a state sponsored plan for “high-risk” individuals. Heather, Leta and me all have individual plans (the state plan does not allow for families) and each of us has a large deductible/out of pocket and a monthly premium. It’s not as bad as other states in terms of cost, but it’s about 5x what I paid when on a group plan through an employer with hundreds of employees.

      I don’t think requiring everybody to have insurance is the right step. Doesn’t fix the rising cost issues.

  • Lindy

    As an American living in the UK I have experienced heathcare from both sides. Although the NHS has it’s problems at least I never have to worry about healthcare and prescriptions. I gave birth to my daughter and I didn’t have to worry about a large medical bill. I can call in the middle of the night when I have a medical question and am given good advice.

    The main issue that people complain about in the UK is waiting lists. You have to be referred from you general practitioner to a specialist and those wait lists can be long. When dealing w/ terminal illnesses this can be a problem.

    I find it humorous that the pharmaceutical industry has decided FINALLY to cut the cost of prescriptions. They’re running scared and are now doing something they have done for almost every other country in the world excect the US– the cost of prescriptions is sky high in the US because of the pharmaceutical lobby. I hope the Obama administration stays the course and pushes through fundamental heathcare reform. I find it a crying shame that one of the most powerful nation in the world has such a system where a basic human right is such a shambles.

    Sorry for my rambling comment.
    Lindy

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/72feetabovesealevel/ michael

    rac945

    I love your last paragraph, it’s very true. I’m not anywhere close to being any sort of conservative, but I think classical conservatism has a lot to offer and that we can learn from. Part of the problem with all the yelling is that there is so much of it, yelling is expected and seen as the norm. We need to change that.

    I voted to keep the Commies out of healthcare as I think we really need to move by consensus and from the center on this (commies being a fringe element should be listened too, but not allowed to take over). Those who yell and distort need to be shut down quick and told to knock it off.

    I spent about 15 years working with housing programs for adults with developmental disabilities– mostly autism. Almost everyone I worked with used Medicare. Problems were rare. I had more issues with my own private insurance than I had with my clients Medicare. Most of the problems that I did run into with were related to lack of funding, near constant changes in what Medicare would cover and doctors offices having to juggle multiple systems. In a nutshell, if everything was covered and there was only one way to code a sinus infection I would have never had a problem with Medicare.

    We already have Medicare, Medicaid and Tricare (military).
    Maybe a good place to start would be to integrate these three programs in to a single program and expand eligibility?
    .

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/72feetabovesealevel/ michael

    One last thought.

    I wouldn’t support the banning of secondary insurance. I.E. Universal coverage gets you a bed in a hospital when you break your leg. Secondary insurance gets you a private room. With universal coverage picking up the tab for low-cost routine stuff and for catastrophic care secondary insurance should be widely available and reasonably affordable.

  • xkikix

    I’m worried about healthcare reform and how it will affect doctors’ pay. I don’t know exactly how they will be affected since the details are so murky. However, I do know that through his four years of residency, my partner has earned an average of $7.90 per week. Below minimum wage. That’s if he worked 100 hours that week which was the norm, and there were many, many weeks with more. Finishing residency next year at 32, he’s in more debt than some people spend on a house. [Oh, and he just took a 10% paycut. Yay, California budget crisis!]

    Doctors don’t earn as much as people assume they do, especially working in big cities like LA or SF. Can you believe it? I’m dating a doctor and we’re struggling to make ends meet. lol We have been for very long. Because of that, we’re temporarily moving for five or so years to the mid west after he graduates where the same jobs pay more, away from our families and friends so that we don’t have to feel such a financial burden every month.

    I know that we’re lucky that he has a job. But thinking about leaving my career [small cities don’t offer opportunities in my field], thinking about the loans, how he’ll work harder for less than he had planned for, thinking about how we won’t be able to buy a home for a long while, it’s pretty depressing. Then again, many things are these days. I can’t wait to be in the black so I have enough resources to do things to help bring about change.

    Okay, time to think about babies. lol *smile*

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      I think that as part of the reform, student loans should be paid in part or in full as a thank you to people willing to become doctors. Doctors benefit society and the barriers to entry are far too high. I think a living allowance should be paid as well, so physicians are motivated to stay in urban centers despite high housing costs.

      I had an optometrist in SF who moved out as his salary wouldn’t cover the cost of living in SF. That was in 1998, so I know that story well.

      • http://faydean.typepad.com faydean

        Most states already pay a portion of doctor’s tuition for their education. My husband went to Univ. of Tenn. and more than half of his tuition was footed by the state…as were all his fellow classmates.

        If one goes to a state school the tuition is not unbearable. The problems comes with loans students must get to live because you can not work while in med school. They don’t offer dorms and such, so a med student must pay somehow for an apartment, food, car etc. while being educated. That accounted for the biggest portion of all of my friends’ debt post school.

        The salaries for residents has improved. And in the state of TN (can’t remember if it’s nationwide since it was at the tail end of my husband’s residency) has put limits on the number of hours a resident can be worked. Unfortunately for my hubs, he was worked to death so yes, he literally made like two dollars an hour during some rotations.

        Taxes in TN paid for the portion of his tuition and I believe that is a common program.

    • Joanne

      xkikix,

      i’m trying to garner more sympathy than i have for your situation right now, but i can’t. there is financial incentive to move to places where access to health is compromised. and there should be. it’s how doctors are able to pay off their loans and how people can have equitable (or close to equitable) access to treatment.

      your boyfriend may not earn as much as people think. but he will. long term financial security are one of many privileges enjoyed (and earned) by doctors.

      my physician is also my next door neighbor. his family is as conservative as mine is liberal. we disagree on energy (they have two hummers), foreign policy (“torture is deserved”), and various other social issues. but healthcare reform is the one area where we come together. people should have a viable government run option to insurance. my doc is not worried about a reduction in reimbursement. he believes that rhetoric is scare tactic by insurance companies to rally AMA. this country will never underpay our doctors. yes, we put them through a dehumanizing rigor when they’re residents but really, we should. the profession merits such rigor. and that gives peace of mind, actually.

      this reply is one of three i’m going to be making to other comments and that i’m sure no one will read. i came late to this particular post. but i did want to respond to your particular situation and also tell you that your financial situation will get better no matter what kind of reform we see.

  • heidisimpson

    Im so glad your writing about this issue. I work in the health insurance industry and it frustrates me to no end the way it works. It is so screwed up and absolutly needs to be reformed. I think people who are really just starting to look at this issue should start with Michael Moore’s Sicko movie.

    I will definatly stay tuned.

  • nessavay

    I think we should require that all companies involved in health care (insurance, doctors, hospitals, pharma, etc) to be non-profit. Nobody should be making profit out of other peoples suffering or death.

    Thanks, Jon, for engaging this conversation. I am excited to see what constructive conversation can bring to the topic.

    Congrats on your beautiful bundle of joy. :)

  • http://dahlias.livejournal.com/ dahlias​.livejournal​.com/

    A couple things about the poll–

    For countries we should look at for healthcare, I suggest watching “sick in the world”.

    As far as Cobra goes, thanks to a gov’t passed regulation, my boyfriends contracting company has to pay 65% of it now that he is laid off. Considering how much $$ he’s made for them the past 3 years, we’re okay with that.

    I’m in the restaurant industry and very few (non-corporate) restaurants offer insurance. I’ve been paying for my own for 7 years now and just had to check into raising my deductible because I can barely afford the monthly premium. We need change, but I don’t like the current suggestions.

    This guys plan interests me– http://​jayparkinsonmd​.com/
    Unfortunately I’m not in Brooklyn.

  • http://www.jeppemorgenthaler.com morgenthaler

    It was just announced two days ago that we (the Danes) pay the highest taxes in the world. I am not sad or angry about this. Quite the contrary, actually. I am very proud.

    Because one of the many things that means is that we have one of the best healthcare systems in the world.

    Our medical “safety” even stretches out in to the rest of the world, so that all unforseen medical expenses abroad (like when travelling) will be payed by the state.

    We are not a communist country :-)

    In fact we have one of the governments farthest to the political right in Europe, and has had so since 2001, and for a long stretch back in the ‘80s as well. It’s because our system was built mainly by the Social Democrats (and no, that is NOT the commies) and still works as a social democracy.

    When I look at the debate in the US as an outsider, and see the coments about “commies” I think: Is this a bad James Bond movie?

    Public healthcare for all is not communism. At all.
    And you shouldn’t be affraid of public healthcare. It’s a kind of “I got YOUR back, and you got MY back”-policy and it works really well.

    PS: When I look at the coverage on politics from guys like Limbaugh, Hannity and O’Reilly I am filled with a fealing of disbelieve. If you have ANY insight to how the world works, you will laugh at them.… that is, if they weren’t so darn scary.

    Forget about imaginary commies and help yourselves to public health care.

    • jeffeboy

      The Danes pay the highest taxes in the world but always rate as the happiest people in the world. Mmmmm, contrary to our government (the US) somebody must be doing something right.…

  • http://blog.ahles.nl/ Patrick

    I’m Dutch, and I’m not very familiar with the US Healthcare system. From what I read I understand that is is deeply flawed, and the Dutch system for example seems quite good. Please understand that the Dutch system has it’s flaws too: waiting lists are huge (lots of people in the south border region actually go to Belgium for treatment, covered by the insurance and all), ever growing costs (for the most part created in the management part of the system) resulting in growing premiums.

    So, yes, it might be better, but it is not heaven.

    • http://ltaa.wordpress.com/ ltaa​.wordpress​.com/

      I’m Dutch as well ;-) and I’m not at all familiar with the US Healthcare system. The Dutch one is not bad, but yes, we have long waiting lists, though people are pressed to find (with or without help of their own health insurance company) and look for other hospitals where waiting lists are not that long. You might indeed find yourself in Germany or Belgium for some procedures.

      For the past three/four years (ever since the Dutch healthcare system had a major overhaul), I have been paying higher monthly insurance payments than in the years before. Currently my employer does not pay me any compensation and the level of insurance is one I picked myself.

      These past four weeks, after a nasty field hockey injury, I have been traveling back and forth to a hospital and a physical therapy clinic for treatment, but so far, it’s not been bad. There was no waiting list and I was able to make speedy appointments with the specialists I needed to see. I have not yet heard from my insurance company, but as I had picked an exstensive health package three/four years ago, I am pretty sure all is covered. It was a battle to read my way through the coverage, but that might just be an issue for my insurer.

      The Dutch system is not ideal, and I do believe that people who cannot afford the basic plans might be skipping insurance all together, but people are not (to my knowledge) turned away when they need care.
      It will be interesting to see how the poll and the comments will grow for this topic/subject!

  • badmonsters

    I think by following other country’s models, we will just be trading one set of problems for another. In many European models, the benefits are “free” (paid out of your taxes, not out of some mystical place where money comes from) but you also do not get the Top O’ the Line medical service. Wait times for treatment are often much much longer than what we are currently used to.

    On another note, does anyone really think the government can operate any bureaucratic department efficiently? Sure the Netherlands, Denmark, England, any European country can brag about how well their healthcare system runs, but their country’s have the population of some of our medium-sized states. If the EU had to come up with a way to organize healthcare for the entire continent, do you really think it would be as efficient?

    Currently, we DO have healthcare that is run by the government: it is called the VA. While their medical care is better than no medical care, we all know it is not the highest quality. If that is the target, then count me out until there is a better idea in place.

    I agree that there needs to be a fix. Until I feel like a large increase in my taxes would actually be used well and not just pissed away in some ill-conceived and poorly functioning mess.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      We also have a pretty great system called Medicare. I agree that the VA needs to be overhauled. There are major tragic stories happening every day in VA centers.

      I think you fear the unknown. Which is understandable. I always bring up European countries (and Canada) in this conversation because they have universal healthcare and the world did not end. There are still free markets. Capitalism didn’t die because a country decided to offer universal health care.

  • nobody

    I wanted to vote but, Leftie that you are, you left out “let natural selection run its course.” How can people vote intelligently when you leave out the most intelligent option?

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      This is either a poor attempt at humor or a borderline troll comment. One more and I’ll ban you.

      If you’re trying to be funny, use a smiley: :-) . That’s a colon, a dash and an end parenthesis with no spaces.

      • nobody

        I will have consumed the entire US healthcare budget before I use a smiley.

  • nobody

    The “Public option” won’t provide real competition, as it would be heavily subsidized. That subsidy could come through higher taxes elsewhere. Worse, and more likely, the government could force providers to take lower payments, and participate, which would shift their costs to private insurers.

    The biggest problem in the current system is the distortion created by the tax advantage of employer provided care. That’s hard to unwind b/c of the uncertainties and the (proper) concern about tax increases. People just don’t see the relationship between cost and their health care decisions, so they buy health care as if it were free.

    That obviously creates problems for anyone actually paying for care, whether its employers for employees or the government for the less fortunate and the elderly. Once we fix that the system will quickly begin moving toward something more rational. Of course, it’s such a mess that getting there will take years.

  • nobody
    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      I agree with Mr. Brooks that people aren’t aware of the real costs of their healthcare. It’s only when a catastrophic event happens that people realize just how much their employers are paying for healthcare.

      I would argue we don’t have real competition now. Insurance companies are not about covering people as much as they are about reducing risk and maximizing profit.

      I disagree that the biggest problem is the tax advantage. I think the biggest problem is that everyone is not covered as a baseline. The tax advantage is but one problem in a forest of problems.

      • nobody

        They haven’t any profit without revenue, have they? Companies have large staffs dedicated to making insurance companies compete on coverage and rate. We don’t see this competition because the employers do it for most of us, and the rest of make a poor market in comparison. But that competition is very real.

        If people saw their costs, and bore a greater portion of them, they would consume care more carefully, because they’d be paying a greater share of its costs. They’d choose procedures and tests more thoughtfully, and the medical culture would adapt greater sensitivity to balancing cost and efficacy. There would still be some huge expenses, and people going uncovered, but the system would get cheaper and better overall.

        And then it would be a lot easier to see who really needed help, and a lot cheaper to help them. And healthcare would chew up a smaller fraction of the cost of hiring people, which would mean those people would get higher wages.

  • HDC

    Seriously, how can anyone seriously think it’s perfect? Who are those 2%?

    My husband just told me about the horrible straits his office’s janitor’s brother is in. He was shot six times (!) by gang members who mistook him for a competing drug dealer. The poor OB survived but after two weeks in the hospital, the hospital discharged him because he has no insurance. They sent him home with no bandages, no followup care, no bandages, and no instructions, and a week’s supply of Tylenol.

    Yeah! Best system in the world. America. Fuck. Yeah.

    Absolutely inhumane.

  • http://emailtoid.net/i/1a942079/f4b7a1d6/ emailtoid​.net/​i​/​1​a​9​42079/…

    First-time commenter, here. This is something I am relatively passionate about and one that requires more knowledge than the average bear. I work for hospitals, and this issue has far more facets than many are aware. I hope this is a good starting place to help people to research and comprehend en toto.

    1. First and foremost, one must acknowledge EMTALA and the effects it has had on our healthcare delivery and cost shifting.

    2. Secondly, one must learn about how Medicare pays (RVU) and who determines that payment model (plus, Medicare is slated to be bankrupt in about 2012)…that and Medicare legal agreements with hospitals and individual doctors.

    3. Third, greed. Greed is very much a 2-way street. At what point do we start holding individuals responsible for their part in their health? We are the most obese country in the nation where poverty=obesity. How strange is that? We drink. We smoke. We don’t exercise enough. Is it “greedy” to expect other people who do care for themselves to turn a blind eye to those who do not in the spirit of equality and love (and expensive medical care)? Are sacrifices or more national/state laws in order?

    4. Fourth, and probably the most important, physicians. These are some of the best, brightest, dedicated people who enter into this noble profession (many arrogant, but I guess I would be too after making that sacrifice). Who else incurs school loan debts in the range of 250,000.00 to 300,000.00 range? Who else has to pay for malpractice insurance just to do his/her job? Anyone? Lawyers maybe? I’m really not sure, to be honest.

    We can have all of the “national” healthcare in this world, but if there are no doctors willing to participate, then what? You will be seen by an NP? A PA? Are we dumbing down medicine and trusting Doctor Google?

    I refer everyone to the engineering principle — quality, fast or cheap. Pick two.

    5. Distribution of care. We have “socialized” schools, police, and firemen. Do they vary between community-to-community? Why? Does anyone think that healthcare would be different? Should it be? People of different cultures and ethnicity have very different medical issues and cultural bases that affect health. We are not homogenous like many European countries. Should we take that into consideration? If yes, why. If not, why?

    My personal springboard for some dialogue, if you will, and thanks for reading.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      If everybody is covered, EMTALA goes away.

      I’m not buying the “… is going bankrupt” argument. Everything is always going bankrupt. In one weekend the US Government ponied up enough cash to give universal coverage to every citizen. Instead, that money went to reward hubris-inflicted. self-important douchebags and save financial markets. Sure, something needed to be done. No question. But if we really want to fix healthcare, we can.

      I agree that greed is very much a two-way street. Most people are not aware of how much healthcare costs.

      I think we’d need to help doctors out as well; grants and tuition waivers might be a good place to start. There is one aspect of physician benefit that a few commenters have hinted at: With a single payer system, the administrative costs on the physician side are dramatically decreased. Instead of several plans and tiers and companies, there is only one. Also reduces billing stress. :-)

      I really feel like “cultural considerations” are kind of moot. If we encourage healthy behavior and wellness as well as guarantee preventative care for all, that goes some distance in alleviating some of the problems we see today. To better respond, do you have specific examples? I would imagine you do if you’re inviting a conversation around that point. Please share!

      Thank you for taking the time to comment.

      • Joanne

        emailtold,

        i am having a bit of trouble believing that you have more knowledge than the “average bear”. your arguments seem rooted in talking points more than experience.

        i’m totally lost about the point you’re trying to make with regards to “greed”. are you comparing the greed of insurance companies to people in poverty who, by your own admission in a different post, are encouraged to buy foods that are against their own health interest? anything written by journalist michael pollen explores this very issue. and if you’re so experienced, you already know what his writings entail.

        To point #4. Unlike people who attend prestigious design and fine arts schools (also ranging in the same expenses range), MD’s have access to all kinds of loan relief. And “Who else has to pay for malpractice insurance just to do his/her job?” If you work for hospitals, you would know the answer to that is EVERY HEALTH CARE PROVIDER has to have malpractice insurance. MDs, nurses, social workers, administrators, and even CNAs and the sanitation staff have malpractice insurance. Hospitals pay for it. The real issue there is malpractice rates. Another issue for another day. I personally have 2mi individual/4mil aggregate and i’m not an MD or an attorney.

        Also, #5. quality of care I’m sure would differ from “community-to-community” by socio-economic class and of course culture will always impact access and compliance. None of that gives us license to deny 43 million people a human right.

        • http://emailtoid.net/i/1a942079/f4b7a1d6/ emailtoid​.net/​i​/​1​a​9​42079/…

          “people in poverty who, by your own admission in a different post, are encouraged to buy foods that are against their own health interest??”

          That’s an interesting statement. Who buys foods that are against their own health interest? Everyone, anyone, specific people, only poverty-stricken people? Who? Are you implying that the EBT program facilitates/encourages poor food choices? If so, then that certainly needs to change. Right?

          And “Who else has to pay for malpractice insurance just to do his/her job?” If you work for hospitals, you would know the answer to that is EVERY HEALTH CARE PROVIDER has to have malpractice insurance.”

          I work every single day providing documentation for many Californians’ healthcare needs. I am exempt from liability. Physicians hold the ultimate responsibility once they sign off on their orders and documents. Which, if you look at your argument, the HOSPITAL carries the insurance for the ancillary staff, not the MDs. They and their contracted groups are responsible for malpractice insurance, not the hospital. And, nowdays, most internists don’t even visit the hospital, the hospitalists take care of internal medicine issues.

          “None of that gives us license to deny 43 million people a human right.”

          Define “human right.” Sanitary water is a “human right.” Doesn’t mean you get a plumber provided by the federal government, does it? Or should we include that in The Bill of Rights too? Just curious.

          For shit’s sake, let’s just all redefine The Bill of Rights once and for all. Screw the individual states’ rights (like, oh, gay marriage or abortion = both of which I think our goshdarn free states/country should support per COMMUNITY desires), just what everyone thinks the Feds should be responsible, tax, and provide at ______ personal cost (fill in your personal cost blank…time, energy, aggravation, paperwork,etc.).

          • http://emailtoid.net/i/1a942079/f4b7a1d6/ emailtoid​.net/​i​/​1​a​9​42079/…

            “43 million people”

            As well, please cite your statistics. I Googled it, but all I found were anecdotal sites. A .gov or something similar would stand a little better in your favor for true debating purposes.

            A basic statistics class in college (many moons ago) taught me the difference between correlation and cause and effect.

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