Shovelling the Poop

“A striking example of the prevailing cravenness was Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia, who has authored end-of-life counseling provisions and told the Washington Post that comparing such counseling to euthanasia was nuts — but then quickly retreated when he realized that he had sided with the reality-based community against his Rush Limbaugh-led party. Mitt Romney, the Republican front-runner for President according to most polls, actually created a universal-health-care plan in Massachusetts that looks very much like the proposed Obamacare, but he spends much of his time trying to fudge the similarities and was AWOL on the ‘death panels.’ Why are these men so reluctant to be rational in public?”

“An argument can be made that this is nothing new. Dwight Eisenhower tiptoed around Joe McCarthy. Obama reminded an audience in Colorado that opponents of Social Security in the 1930s ‘said that everybody was going to have to wear dog tags and that this was a plot for the government to keep track of everybody … These struggles have always boiled down to a contest between hope and fear.’ True enough. There was McCarthyism in the 1950s, the John Birch Society in the 1960s. But there was a difference in those times: the crazies were a faction — often a powerful faction — of the Republican Party, but they didn’t run it. The neofascist Father Coughlin had a huge radio audience in the 1930s, but he didn’t have the power to control and silence the elected leaders of the party that Limbaugh — who, if not the party’s leader, is certainly the most powerful Republican extant — does now. Until recently, the Republican Party contained a strong moderate wing. It was a Republican, the lawyer Joseph Welch, who delivered the coup de grâce to Senator McCarthy when he said, ‘Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?’ Where is the Republican who would dare say that to Rush Limbaugh, who has compared the President of the United States to Adolf Hitler?”

Read more: The GOP Has Become a Party of Nihilists

Via: Talking Points Memo.

There’s this McClatchy story detailing organizations funding attacks on healthcare reform:

“FreedomWorks, which has been advocating against the overhaul but has not launched TV ads, is chaired by Dick Armey, the former Republican majority leader of the House of Representatives from Texas.

But also noteworthy are the group’s other backers and board members. They include billionaire flat-tax proponent and former GOP presidential candidate Steve Forbes; Richard J. Stephenson, who founded Cancer Treatment Centers of America, which offers alternative as well as standard therapies, sometimes not covered by insurance; and Frank M. Sands, Sr., chief executive officer of an investment management firm whose offerings include a Healthcare Leaders portfolio.

‘They’re on our board because they support lower taxes, less government and more freedom,’ said FreedomWorks spokesman Adam Brandon.”

Who’s behind the attacks on a health care overhaul? | McClatchy

Via: Talking Points Memo.

On this past Monday night, Rachel Maddow outlined brilliantly the same thing:

Which appears to be standard operating procedure for conservatives:

Which brings us back to the TIME​.com piece I linked above.

I wouldn’t blame Obama or the Democrats if they decided to fix healthcare without the Republicans. Which looks better in a campaign ad, “We fixed healthcare” or “We opposed healthcare because Obama is evil”?

Conservatives, the clock is ticking and you are looking crazier everyday.

  • http://daddyscratches.com DaddyScratches

    You wouldn’t blame them? I’m *begging* them to. Clearly, this bipartisan thing isn’t working out, and I am beyond crazed that a bunch of conservative nutbags who refuse to recognize science, logic, reason, and commonsense are dragging the rest of us down the drain.

    BUT …

    Do you think Obama and the Democrats will actually pull the trigger on their own? Seriously?

    • TheNephew

      I think Democrats will pull the trigger and here is why. We campaigned on change, large change, and it wasn’t a secret we were going to fix healthcare. As Howard Dean put it, if the Democrats do not fix healthcare before 2010, the people will vote for change again, and Democrats won’t like the result.

      Voting against healthcare as a democrat is essentially a vote against the president. And NO democrat is going to do a better job in their district by running to the center on a platform of “I made sure you didn’t get healthcare” (which will be the campaign slogan).

      Democrats need to stop pretending that Republicans are their friends, we need to take advantage of our overwhelming majority in both houses and get this thing done. If Republicans don’t want to play ball, then they can stay in the party of “No” that has said no to medicare, medicaid, VA benefits, and social security, since the early 1930’s.

      Also, its not as if the Republicans extended the same courtesies when they won their majorities in 1994 and 96. They booted most of the entrenched leadership on the House Appropriation Committees and House Authorization Committee, and removed any meaningful Democratic input on Conference Committee’s until 2006, when we took both houses back from the Republicans. Main point, Democrats need to shake off the dust, get their dander up and go it alone without the Republicans, the country is waiting.

      • http://blurbomat.com blurb

        I hope you are right. Sounds like the compromise might be to allow state coops as well as public option. Can’t see that as a bad thing. Personally, I’d go with a private plan if possible.

        I agree that the country voted for change. Dems need to nut it up and get busy. I think after this initial freakout, the Dems need to flex the majority and pass legislation then campaign on a “fixing it” message.

  • steve-o

    It’s funny that you bring up social security and how people were scared of it back in the day. Where is Social Security now? Oh, yeah, on the verge of bankruptcy. The money that they were supposed to be holding in interest turned into a grab pot and now by the time you or I are able to draw off of it, it’s gonna be worthless.

    That is why I oppose a government option. Most government run programs end up in disaster and cost more and more money.

    Change the health laws to allow competition from insurance carriers across statelines. Give tax incentives to people who wish to donate money so that other’s can receive healthcare. Enact TORT reform so doctors don’t have to pay such high insurance deductibles and do as much preventive medicine.

    Why aren’t these a good start rather than a public option?

    • TheNephew

      Yeah like the biggest government program of all, the U.S. military which is on the verge of bankruptc.…..wait its perfectly fine. And I like the use of Social Security as the flagship of government waste, but neglect to mention the thousands of government programs that do work, Li-Heat (Heat subsidies for individuals who can’t afford them), for the poor we have the Earned Income Tax Credit, we have the Tennessee Valley Authority (formerly one of the biggest government programs to expand job creation in America), the National Endowment for the Arts, NASA, the FDA, and NRC, the FBI, and CIA, and any number of government programs that are running fine and are not on the verge of collapsing into oblivion. Your blanket assertion that the government doesn’t know how to cost control, I think, is just flat out wrong.

      And as a future lawyer, tort reform is the fool’s answer to decreasing costs. Tort reform limits damage caps on individuals who, in many cases, deserve money for the negligent conduct of other individuals. Do we need more responsibility in the lawyering profession, absolutely, should we be punishing clients by artificially putting caps on damage rewards for the CLIENT’s damages? No. (you know why? Because courts tend to reduce the damage rewards sua sponte (on their own initiative) if they think the jury ran away on the rewards, this is an old practice dating to the early 1500’s called remittitur. If you think I’m wrong check here http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​R​e​m​i​ttitur) You know who agrees with me? Justice Scalia, and if that isn’t a conservative I don’t know who is. Additionally, many of the reasons why doctors operate in safer methods is exactly because of tort lawyers who said “you can’t leave a scalpel in a patient without paying for your negligence”

      And I don’t know how you enact competition for insurance companies across state lines, that like saying IHC you can compete in Alaska and Washington D.C., but then again, if IHC wanted to be in those markets, wouldn’t they already be there? I mean forced coverage across the nation seems like it would also bankrupt private insurers (i mean the advantages of limiting the size of your market is that you know which law provisions apply and which insurance provisions will be enforceable, you make every insurance company work nationwide, what you will likely see is oligopilization or monopolization of insurance companies to make up for regional companies that literally can’t expand their operation across the country).

      • steve-o

        As a future lawyer, I find that on the issue of TORT reform you do have a little bias. I mean, you’d be one who could potentially profit from someone bringing a meaningless lawsuit. That of course is dependent on what time of law you plan on practicing of course.

        On the issue of the military, I can tell you that as someone who has been around the military and who know works in defense contracting, it’s not managed well either. It’s just that they get a big enough piece of the pie in order to hide the dust. In my personal opinion costs could be cut significantly there too, but that’s a different story.

        As far as allowing insurance carriers to operate across state-lines, I would argue that companies who would want to operate in another state would do it anyways. Perhaps they don’t want to or have the means to support another location/staff. There are any number of reasons. But seeing as the age we live in now is so consumer friendly, why can’t we just search online and find a health insurance provider the same way we would look for car insurance or other goods and services? Oh wait, that’s because we can’t.

        The free market can provide it’s own competition if it’s allowed to operate freely. If a company wants to stay in business, they operate in a way so that their customers are happy.

        • http://blurbomat.com blurb

          You have to be joking. The health insurance industry has run rough-shod over the market. They’ve had decades to provide “real competition” and failed.

          In fact, from 2000–2007, big insurance companies bought other insurance companies; creating not more choice, but less.

          http://​bit​.ly/dGpTv
          (link goes to a page that has a report that I’ve linked to previously citing insurance company consolidation in markets across the country. The report is a PDF.)

          Deregulation hasn’t worked well for energy, the banking system, airlines and it’s certainly not going to work for an already jacked health insurance industry.

          Reality is not on your side, steve-o. The numbers tell a different story than you want to believe. The U.S. is at or near the bottom of nearly every statistic when compared to the rest of the developed world.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      We’ve underfunded Social Security for quite awhile. Bush tried to privatize it and failed.

      Most government run programs? Like the money we spend on education? That ends in disaster? Public education is one of the best things out of the 20th century. And guess what, it’s subsidized by the government.

      steve-o, you are venturing into dining room table territory.

      • steve-o

        Jon, I’m not sure what you mean by dining room table territory (honestly no sarcasm). I would disagree that public education is one of the best things out of the 20th century.

        Maybe it’s just where I live, but there are a lot of people in Virginia who are functionally illiterate (http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​F​u​n​c​t​i​o​n​a​l​_​i​l​l​i​teracy). That means that they know enough reading to survive day to day life but couldn’t read a newspaper if their life depended on it. If literacy is considered a sign of a good education (I honestly don’t know, but it would make sense to me) then the US education system is a disaster.

        I just remember the debacle of “No Child Left Behind” which has made things even worse for education. And that was a republican idea too.

        Sorry, I think I’m getting everyone off topic.

  • http://daddyscratches.com DaddyScratches

    Exclusively using a free-market system for healthcare is a disgrace when doing so means, for example, that people with pre-existing medical conditions—i.e. the people who most need healthcare–or people who can’t afford it, can’t get coverage, and die because of it.

    The free-market-only argument for healthcare is bullshit, and I love hearing its proponents say, “Hey, you shouldn’t just be able to get free healthcare.”

    Yeah, you’re right, that’s crazy … it’d be kinda like if your home caught on fire, and some big, burly guys with huge, bright-red trucks just came over for “free” and put out the blaze for you … or if somebody broke into your house and you could just call some highly trained, armed individuals to come over for “free” and apprehend the offender.

  • TheNephew

    Lets clear up some things: This statement, “Change the health laws to allow competition from insurance carriers across statelines.” and this statement, “The free market can provide it’s own competition if it’s allowed to operate freely. If a company wants to stay in business, they operate in a way so that their customers are happy.” Contradict one another steve-o. You can’t change health care LAWS to ALLOW (IE REQUIRE) carriers to recognize insurance across statelines, AND advocate for a free market system. When you use the law to enforce a legislative mandate, you have disrupted the free market. Worse off for your diametricly opposed argument, is that the free market is exactly why insurance companies deign to allow coverage across the entire country, (Unless you pay inordinate sums of money to get that privilege, money most can’t afford in the best of circumstances). So pick, which one do you want steve-o free market (ie status quo) or regulation and government programs? Either decision requires you to hedge on one of your two central points. Next time don’t contradict yourself.

    Next big item, I refuse to believe that having a bias inherently means that I am wrong or that you are right. Especially when my bias is grounded in knowledge that comes from actually knowing something about the judicial process; unlike your bias in the other direction which stems from a lack of knowledge about judicial process or the tort system. But, even if i grant to the fullest that my tort law bias would naturally lead me to argue against tort reform, it doesn’t matter either way because my chosen field of practice regards constitutional law, election law, campaign finance, and election protection; fields of law that don’t make anywhere near the amount of money as my friends in transaction and securities law (who happen to make 5k+ a week).

    Now, steve-o, since you decided to dismiss my argument about tort reform, let me get very specific to show you why your lack of education on the subject further elucidates why you are incorrect about tort reform. As a person who is against government programs and intervention you should like this; the government already has rules that limit frivolous law suits and reduce damage caps. I made this point earlier with remittitur, but you ignored it, so let me draw the point out even clearer. Federal Rules of Civil Procedure: Rule 11 clearly states that when a lawyer submits paperwork before the court that the lawyer knows to be false (A frivolous lawsuit would qualify) that lawyer will succumb to rule 11C sanctions (such as disbarment, the lawyer paying out of pocket for wasting time, or publication of the lawyer’s misconduct in state newspapers). Furthermore, the Supreme Court addressed this issue in Dimick v. Scheidt and held that remittitur, i.e. limiting damage rewards in a civil trial, was constitutionally acceptable when done by a court (such action must occur after a jury has made a damage reward).

    But here is what really pisses me off, this statement, “I mean, you’d be one who could potentially profit from someone bringing a meaningless lawsuit.” First you assume that me, or at least many lawyers, are willing to bring “meaningless lawsuits” before a court. That isn’t something most lawyers do. MORE IMPORTANTLY the adjective, “meaningless” is truly in the eyes of the beholder in a tort case. My guess, steve-o, is that you have never had to avail yourself of the judicial system through tort law. But what you might term a “meaningless case” would be someone else’s definition of the most gravest wrong done to them. For example: Most people that ascribe to the “tort reform” bandwagon love to parade around the infamous McDonalds case where a woman burned her upper thigh and genital region with a cup of McDonalds coffee. The media loves to say that the jury awarded millions of dollars to this woman. What you haven’t heard is the following: 1) The court used remittitur to reduce the damages so that the woman received 100k dollars; this shows my above statements are absolutely right, 2) there was extensive evidence that McDonald’s was negligent with regard to its coffee (The coffee was heated to 180 degrees farenheit which means that to handle the coffee safely, someone should have thick inflammable rubber gloves) 3) McDonalds, to save fractions of a penny on each of its cups, had intentionally worn away the thickness of their cups to a degree that they no longer protected individuals from the scalding hot coffee inside the cups. These things taken together show McDonald’s negligence, how do I know? I talked to the lawyer who headed up the case against McDonalds.

    EVEN BEYOND that, tort reform only works to limit the damages a person can receive as a result of negligent behavior. BUT, its tort lawyers who work hard to ensure the products you receive are safe to handle. How do I know? Well, Justice Traynor (California Supreme Court) argued in Escola v. Coca Cola that our products are frequently outside the hands of consumers (this couldn’t be MORE TRUE in healthcare) and as a result consumers, due to complexity and lack of individual knowledge, are more likely to be harmed by products that are improperly given to consumers (again this applies to healthcare via surgeries and medical treatment). Traynor then argues that products must be safe if we expect our consumers to advance in any given industry. Therefore products must be held to a high standard of care when given to consumers. (NOTE the case at hand was one where a woman’s coca cola bottle randomly exploded in her face permannetly disfiguring her, meaningless, i think not). (for those that are tort lawyers, i get that there is a difference between product liability and negligence but the principle stands)

    To bolster this argument, think of the ford pinto, you know why its not on the market anymore? Tort lawyers. Why? Because the car exploded when it got into a crash. You know why that happened? Because, Lee Iacocca, in an attempt to make an affordable car, refused to spend 6 cents per car to shave off a piece of metal that, when hit from behind, ruptured the gas tank on the pinto, causing it to explode. If it weren’t for tort lawyers such ill designed products would exist.

    When it comes to doctors and healthcare, tort lawyers are at the forefront of ensuring doctors remain honest when they go through procedures. So for example, when a hospital takes blood cells from a patient and then uses them to make millions of dollars of profit, tort lawyers said that was unacceptable (Moore v. Regents of the University of California, i would argue not meaningless). Or when doctors fail to properly diagnose a disease that could readily be diagnosed (Herskovitz v. Group Health Cooperative) resulting in significant loss of a person’s life span. Or finally, in the case of a person, diagnosed with appendicitis who left the hospital with severe muscle atrophy and loss of nerve sensation in his arms. (Ybarra v. spangard).

    The ultimate problem with medical tort reform is that negligent acts are not clear until they come up, and its not clear that someone acted negligently until a suit is brought, and that only happens when a lawyer decides to fight for a patient’s right to be free from someone else’s negligent behavior. Its easy, to be someone who hasn’t suffered from negligence to sit by and say “Lawyers, all they do is bring frivolous lawsuits” but god help you if you ever need one of our services because someone injured you, or someone you love, simply due to their inadvertence. That is why I am “biased” against medical tort reform. I’ve seen far too many cases where hospitals attempt to cover up their negligent actions, lie to patients, or where doctors try to take advantage of a patient’s lack of knowledge when it comes to medicine. I’d rather have too much litigation, than to little in such a world where negligence can be so easily covered up.

    One final remark, the reason why we have so many lawsuits, is because our judicial system is based on a very simple notion: That those who have been wronged, are allowed to have their day in court. This notion goes all the way back to before the revolution in 1776, and was emblazoned in our jurisprudence in Marbury v. Madison from Chief Justice Marshall. This notion is codified in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure in Rule 8a which states that all that is required for a claim to be heard by the court is a short, simple statement stating a harm caused that can be attributed to defendant, a statement of jurisdiction, and relief sought from the court. I’d rather follow this simple principle, any given day, than artificially prevent one person from filing a suit which should have been brought, but was barred because medical tort reform.

    • http://blurbomat.com blurb

      YES.

    • steve-o

      Fair enough. I appreciate you sharing with me about the TORT laws. I think I understand where you are coming from.

      I still am not seeing the diametric opposition to my argument about competition across statelines. I never stated that hospitals have to accept coverage from any carrier. Could you explain that? You don’t have to do it here — you can shoot it to my email (steven.​f.​day@​gmail.​com). I just want to understand it a little better.

      I’m not converted per se, but I’m listening. I’m open to having my views changed. I just need to have all the facts.

      You’ve said enough to get me to let of the TORT idea.

  • Le Fiffre

    I LOVED the Rachel Maddow clips. But there’s one setup she didn’t get entirely right: about the health care consulting firm The Lewin Group. Yes, it IS owned by UnitehHealth Group (UHG), but it wouldn’t be in business were it a mouthpiece for UHG. The Lewin Group is made up of very bright people who perform what-if studies for hire. They work for all facets of the industry and government entities to answer questions such as, “Given A, B, and C, then what would D look like?” Sure, the GOP can hire them to run whacked scenarios, and then quote the results out of context, but don’t fall for it. Jon links to his sources, and you should demand the same when the GOP quotes The Lewin Group.

    The Lewin Group’s stock in trade is their integrity, independence, and objectivity. Were it not so, and The Lewin Group lied for the right, left, or any faction, their market would shrink, their credibility would tank, and they wouldn’t make money — then UHG would be very unhappy with them because UHG is FOR-profit, let’s remember.

    Follow Rachel’s instructions, visit http://​www​.thelewingroup​.com, read About Us, and you’ll see that the Group makes no effort to hide its ownership and, in fact, discusses it openly and at length, specifically here: http://​www​.thelewingroup​.com/​I​n​t​e​grity/

    “Neither Ingenix nor UnitedHealth Group or its subsidiaries review the work products of The Lewin Group. The Lewin Group operates with editorial independence and provides its clients with the very best expert and impartial health care and human services policy research and consulting services.”

    Now for some full disclosure of my own: A few summers ago, for a few months, The Lewin Group hired me to work on its website. I had occasion to write/speak with quite a few of these people. When I coauthor marketing copy with folks, I take their temperature in a hurry. I found The Lewin Group to be admirably restrained with their messaging and hyper-concerned with the integrity and independence of their work. I’m was supposed to be the marketing wonk, the hype master, right? Yes, but they reigned me in hard until I got the right idea. Rachel surely sparked apoplexy in Falls Church, VA.

    These people at The Lewin Group have jaw-dropping credentials and so, let’s just say, they need sell their souls to no one, including UHG. Besides being an alarmingly bright and friendly bunch of folks, what I liked best about them was this: They paid promptly. A long time ago. That’s the limit of my bias.

    I venture that just as many Democrats quote The Lewin Group as Republicans, so for Rachel to paint the Group with the same brush as the GOP is misleading.