Holy Wars
April 2nd, 2004Having a child and being public about it is fraught with advice. Most of it is friendly, welcome and helpful. There are sides to every choice a parent makes. It has been interesting and informative to hear about the sides. Each of these sides are as passionate and adamant as the other. If you decide to breast-feed, there are political ramifications. If you decide to have the baby sleep in your bed, there are the pro-crib people and the anti-crib people. There are the anti-baby squashers. And by God, they are all, each one, right.
The thing that gets me about most of the arguments are that they ignore a few things. The first is that every person is different. That would include an infant. Some infants are colicky. Some are natural born sleepers. Some are born large enough to have different feeding and living requirements than the average infant. For example, a 50lb baby has very different requirements than does a 12lb baby. No matter what, the humanness of the child gets ignored, because the true path to making a great society lies in grabbing a dogma and holding it like your very first stuffed animal.
Science gets ignored. And abused. Studies are always showing whatever we want them to. The thing that gets me is that life expectancy in general has increased, largely due to advances in science and the attendant research and medical benefits. Learning is good. However, learning is just another way we are KILLING OUR BABIES. Classic example: cribs are only a 100 year-old invention. So, obviously, cribs are evil because they _force_ the baby away from the parents. Nevermind that healthy and rested parents can make for happier and better parents. SCREW THAT IDEA NINE WAYS TO JESUS BECAUSE HUMANS DON’T REALLY NEED SLEEP. And then the anti-baby squashers that will tell you YOU WILL KILL YOUR BABY if they sleep in your bed.
Most of the fascists in these debates claim to put the baby first. As with all religious battles, they are just putting their beliefs first. The most disarming thing in all of this is that the mother is reduced to a form of objectivity; she’s the vessel, the instrument and/or the feeder. It’s this same mentality that puts unborn rights above those that are born and living. It’s the same mentality that tells you you ARE A FAILURE AS A PARENT IF YOU DON’T DO AS I SAY.
Either way, thanks for the advice and I’ll apparently be seeing a lot of other parents in hell. o
Amen, man.
Our baby is six months old right now, which means we’ve been hearing other people’s baby-raising opinions for about 16 months already (it started with conception).
Sadly, as bad as I am at the daddy thing sometimes, even I feel the urge to pass on what little wisdom I’ve gained. Why the hell would I offer “advice” about the subject in which I am most clueless? No sane person would even listen to me!
The thing I hate most happens when I am alone with my daughter in public (her mommy works evenings and weekends, so this happens a lot), and she’s crying or fussing. For some reason, random women always come by to offer advice. Several have even been kind enough to say, “She wants her momma!” (Thanks, lady.) I’m probably over-sensitive to it, but it always seems so sexist and condescending. How many of those women are offering advice to other women? I smile and nod, but I HATE when that happens.
woo weee a pristine comment section! Childless though I am, I have to agree with you. You have to make an intelligent decision as to what is best for you and your family. Unfortunately, most of the people breeding aren’t very intelligent and require advice on every aspect of parenting. Sounds like you are just trapped in the middle of the “expert” opinions……..fuck those fuckers. But what do I know?
I am a mother of a 2 month old, and my personal favorite when my son is crying in public is, “Oh, he must be hungry!” Yeah, cause forget the fact that I fed him 20 minutes ago before I left the house…you must know my son better than me! There’s no way he could be tired or bored or just got his shots at the doctor or just plain cranky. Stupid people!
I wish I could say that it gets better, but I’m still getting “helpful advice” from all corners, and my little girl is 2 1/2. I know they’re just trying to be helpful, but it really gets annoying when absolute strangers do it, let alone people I can actually tell to fuck off.
Amen. You and Heather should just do what is right for Leta and yourselves. Oh, and by the way, I’d love a post about how Chuck is dealing with Leta.
As an auntie and faux-auntie for many years, the only advice I give is “do what is best for you and your partner and your baby”. Cause no one knows better than you, right???
And I second the request about a Chuck-related post
you said: “because the true path to making a great society lies in grabbing a dogma and holding it like your very first stuffed animal.”
I squeal “That is the most profound thing I have heard all week”.
Re Mad’s comment: “How many of those women are offering advice to other women?”: about 97.5% in my experience, unless I exude an air of exceptional helplessness and incompentence when in public w/my kids, which is not out of the question.
I have two pieces of advice from a mother of a child who is REALLY individual. If you listen to your kid then you will be fine. Ignore the rest of the assholes. Ask your children how they feel and what they think and really listen to the answers, get to know them as they grow. And enjoy the trip. It happens at break neck speed…ok, three pieces of advice…:)
as a (fairly) new parent myself, i’ve been harassed, i’ve been questioned, & i’ve been put down as far as any of my choices re: sleeping, feeding, & medicating my baby are concerned. i find a great deal of relief & comfort in reading everything you & dooce post, because i identify with your new parent-isms. i think you are marvelous, grand & fantastic people who are doing everything right for leta. she’s a lucky gal, and you two are lucky folks! kudos….
spot on!!!
p.s. need an update on the former congressman!
Amen Brotha!
I’m glad that someone sees the reality of parenting. You do what is best for YOUR baby. If that means squishing her little frogness, go ahead. If that means you put her to sleep on a bed of nails, that is what you do.
A sleep deprived parent is one that isn’t alert enough to keep tabs on everything.
Ya do what ya gotta do.
I am undoubtedly the most evil parent on the planet because I base nearly all of my parenting decisions on how much sleep I get and very little else.
Isn’t it fun being on the other side?
Every single person I know seems to have my children and my parenting style figured out. Don’t worry it will not stop. Instead of sleep and nipple suggestions they will somehow have your child’s behavior analyzed and won’t hesitate to remind you that you give your child too much sugar or better you can hear their whispers, “My child will never do that!” That is probably why these days after a few crazy encounters I am becoming an agoraphobe.
Seriously though, the reason I can actually step out of the door is (1.) My kids are fucking awesome with or without their socks on at the grocery store on a 40* day. (2.) I imagine at least the people who know me even if they are flat-out wrong, (of course I think they usually are), say those words out of love.
Hey Jon. That’s very interesting.. and I agree with you 100%. I read your wife’s blog regularly. Just thought I’d check out her male counterpart! Have a nice day. -Amy
well…. as someone who at 29 is only beginning to THINK about children… I am much impressed by the two of you and the way you seem to be handling things and STILL keeping a sense of humor. I lie awake at night… keeping in mind that I have only begin to THINK about children… and wonder how am I going to get my children to their doctor’s appointments when I can’t even get to my own? Terrifying stuff, that.
Jon, I have no advice to offer, but rest assured I will be calling you for help when it’s my turn.
Anyone who tries to politicize things like raising children is a *moron* in the first place. There is this wonderful thing called common sense. The Blurb and the Dooce clearly posses common sense in abundance which is exactly why they will be great parents.
Be sensitive to your child’s needs and listen to what your intuition tells you. If in doubt, find books that might help you with a particular issue, read them, and then realize your initial instinct was correct all along. My wife and I read several parenting books with our first child and realized that with the exception of our baby medical reference, we didn’t really need books to help us with common parenting issues.
What can I say? Some parents prefer an academic approach to parenting and that works for them. Great. But like Blurb pointed out, each child is different and each parent is different.
Well said. I’m thinking about getting pregnant so I’ve started reading all sorts of pregnancy and parenting books and I’m astounded by how worried people are about the “right” way to do anything. Like making and having babies is a new thing? Or that there’s ever been just one “right” way to do anything?
Those latest pics of Leta on Dooce… man what a CUTE baby. Next time someone offers unsolicited advice just pass the offender a copy of those pics and tell them to shove it. That baby and the Former Congressman are so CUTE. Y’all rock!
OMG!
The picture of Chuck watching over Leta on dooce is tooooo beyond adorable. Huge awwwwww moment. You guys are so blessed…thanks so much for sharing with the rest of us! And yeah, if you made greeting cards out of that picture I would TOTALLY buy at least 5 boxes…or maybe 10.
I had no idea that crib/no crib could be so inflammatory! I’ve never heard of not using a crib so I guess I must be out of the loop up here in Canada. I had also never heard of a “family bed” and was curious what that was when I ran across the reference in dooce’s site, though I figured the phrase was probably self-explanatory. I gritted my teeth through all the things people told me I “had” to include in my wedding and I’m sure I’ll be gritting them even more when we have kids. It’s great to have sites like yours and dooces to at least give me a sneak peek at what might be to come.
Believe it or not, the where-shall-baby-sleep question is one of the easiest issues you will encounter when it comes to raising Leta! Good grief. No advice from me. Well… Ok. Just one thing. Follow your heart.
Leta is beautiful and you & mom will do just fine, no outside advice needed. Just smile and nod…hmm when recieving unsolicited advice. They’ll get the hint real quick… this conversation is over. Only you, mom and Leta know what’s best for baby. And Chucks has no idea how much fun he’s really in for! They’ll be best buddies -
Yup, been there and am there. I doesn’t get better as the little folk get older.
But let’s face it. YOU gotta live with the little monsters you create. The rest of the busybodies can get stuffed.
My husband and I are expecting our first child in 7 weeks and our good friends just had a baby a week ago. We’ve heard so much advice about the sleeping situation and it just drives me crazy. We actually don’t know exactly what we’ll do because we haven’t met the child yet. But we’ve heard from the anit-crib and the anti-baby squishers. Basically we’ve ignored any advice from people who’ve never had kids and just intend to do what’s best for us. Our friends who just had a baby have found that they had an idea that’s not matching what the baby needs right now, despite their original intention. I really liked what you said about selective scientific information and studies. There’s always someone who can back you up, whereever you stand. You guys rock and the pictures are great too. Keep it up!
Oh and as for the family bed…we had one…still do. I couldn’t stay awake long enough for the feedings. I would put him in a cradle at the beginning of the night and then have a couple of hours for dad and me. He slept a few hours 4 to 5 and I would get up and pull him into bed at the first feeding and sleep lying on my side him sleepily gobbling on my boob. He has been squished but it has been the least of the damage we have done to him. Thank god Freud started that whole therapy thing…
i think people who advise you don’t necessarily think you are doing WRONG, but are just passing on the very advice they wish THEY had been given.
hence the advice to “do what feels best” from so many of your peers, who have all been over- and counter-advised into mental daffy taffy.
this will be followed by a wave of “how can i know what feels best when this is my first time doing it?! why won’t someone share some bit of their experience with me?”
but you know you’re doing well, and the proof is probably that you feel annoyed, rather than relieved, by advice. and leta already looks like she’s got a vicious sense of humor behind that smile, and besides which she is GORGEOUS. so, lucky you!!
so long as you don’t torture her with barry manilow LPs and a lot of good old fashioned italian guilt, i think you are doing ok.
you get screwed both ways. We wanted to have a baby that slept in a crib…she sleeps in our bed now, and according to everyone that is where she will be until we kick her out of the house.
See you in hell!
holy wars. megadeth. good times.
Who cares! There are bigger problems and decisions to make in this world about that baby than where she should sleep.
women give you advise because we are superior human beings. just ask your wife, she’ll tell you.
family bed is fine, worked for us. sleep, sanity and security are more important than what the jones’ think.
ours is 7 now, sleeping in a loft bed but still sneaks into our room now and then after a bad dream. i wouldn’t have it any other way.
they don’t still sleep with parents as college students, right? RIGHT?! PLEASE TELL ME THEY DON”T STILL DO THIS IN COLLEGE!!!
Hahahaha…I love the “never leave the family bed” scenario. LIke what a child needs at one month old is never going to change. Just like my son asked for a haircut at three cause he was tired of being called a girl (traumatized by early scissors near ears or by gender misidentification in the toddler years…which is worse? Therapy will decide!) he’s asking to sleep in his own bed at eight. (And I will let him I promise, just so long as he promises to be mommy’s little boy forever!!!)
I hear ya. I’m 8 months pg and I’m already hearing what I should/shouldn’t do. Can I please get the chance to figure SOME things out on my own and try a few things also. GEEZ
No, they do it to women too. The best is little old ladies in the grocery store who spew the most ridiculous crap at you, or who want to HOLD THE BABY! Yeah, I’m gonna give my precious child to some stranger in the store.
Just wait til the baby is 2, and acts like a two year old. You haven’t HEARD advice and dissaproval until you’ve heard everything you’re doing wrong with your rambunctious 2yo.
I just nod and smile. I used to get into it, but now I just thank them for their unsolicited advice, and walk away.
We still do family bed, at 2.5. Works for us. Doesn’t work for some. We like it, which is all that counts. She still nurses too. You should see the horrified looks I get. I never planned to nurse a 2.5 yo, but you do what you gotta do for your kid.
Hi. I read your wife’s blog also and so read about this issue just the other day.
This is relevant because yesterday, I was on the bus and a Mariner’s game was getting out. A man with a small baby in a BabyBjorn carrier were sitting together across from me. The little baby, sleeping soundly, had his head nuzzled into his dad’s armpit. This older woman sitting next to him says, “you need to move his so he can breathe.” The father simply replied, “he can breathe just fine.”
It was hilarious and I immediately thought of the post on Dooce. After reading your post today, I thought the story would be appropriate.
Take care.
what you do, see, is put up bars all around your bed, see, and hang a diarama above it. then your baby’s sleeping in the crib AND with you. everybody’s happy. see? where should i send the bill?
what helps me & anna with our little archibald jude is to go ahead and provide, out lud, all of their portion of the dialog. i’m not talking about that lukewarm Look Who’s Talking stuff either. If these people offer their tripe advice in the presence of your child, what would *she* say?
we end up having entire conversations about the world and the so called expert in it. jude can be particularly scathing when it comes to the coots who try and tell his parents that any string of good habits that seems to be forming now will ‘flip flop’ in a few months because their hellboy did the same.
jude is usually right here: a child can usually be seen to adopt some level of their parents peaks & valleys.
Sorry if this is OT…read Heather’s post on dooce today. No words of wisdom or advice other than I wish you smoother days ahead. Hugs and lots of positive thoughts! xoxoxoxoxo
I’m on my fourth and fifth babies now and my only advice, EVER, to any parent, and then ONLY when solicited is “trust your instincts” and “try not to kill them”
Hang in there. She’s a gorgeous little shmooshy wonder, that Leta.
i’m sure fifteen other people have said this but i don’t have the energy to read through them…
what’s an anti-baby squasher? is that a professional squasher who doesn’t like babies?
Dude, where’s your RSS feed?
1. Hear, hear! Couldn’t have said it better.
2. My heart goes out to Dooce. PPD is no fun, from experience. Hang in. Remember that none of this lasts forever, that’s my ONLY advice.
3. As you know, your baby is gorgeous. Scrumptious, indeed.
Best wishes to all 4 Dooceletablurbochuckiepoomatics.
About dooce’s doodette’s cheeseburger post… my baby couldn’t quite pronounce “vulva” and called it her “bubba”. Cracked us up every time.
who teaches their baby the word “vulva?” that seems weird. or maybe it’s just me.
Read dooce’s post today, great photos. From one couple who went through much with pregancy and the months shortly after - best thoughts & wishes that all shall be fine & well soon. And do not stop taking the photos - as i do mine, you will consider yours family heirlooms!
you rock. You are definitely going on my blogroll.