Three Things
October 27th, 20041) When supporting a presumptive challenger in an election, there is risk because the challenger hasn’t held the job. One can’t really compare records, because the comparison is flawed. It’s like comparing the CEO’s record to a mid-level manager. One might find threads of valid comparison, but on the whole, one can’t compare records.
2) I do remember Clinton. He bombed Bin Laden and was crucified for it by conservatives. Even though he was in the middle of being impeached, he still knew where the threat was and took action. Where was the “liberal” media then? Busy repeating conservative talking points about a Wag the Dog scenario. Clinton was hated by the right far more than the left hates Bush. We were headed in the right direction under Clinton. We were headed out of debt.
3) Bush has had four years and so many opportunities to lead. His misguided leadership has steered policy away from freedom towards something else. I’m going to quote the definition of fascism found on http://www.dictionary.com:
“A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.”
How much of that exists RIGHT NOW? Belligerent nationalism? Stringent socioeconomic controls? How are meetings run in the White House? What political pressures have been exerted on Congress and the Senate to fall in line with President Bush? Bush wanted a Constitutional amendment denying a fundamental right withheld from a portion of the population. It is not a stretch to see seeds of a dark future with four more years of the current administration.
This is why so many progressives sound the way they do. Conservatives who have smack talked liberals have had their chance with Bush, but he has demonstrated a flawed sense of leadership. I think Bush could have been a great leader and one of the most loved Presidents. He lost it with his policy and his focus on Iraq.
I’m not sure yet, but this might be the final pre-election post. I’ve got to write about the crazy weather obsession that the local television networks have in their newscasts. o
Well-said.
Your dictionary.com reference reminded me of the fact that we looked up the pronunciation of “nuclear” in Webster’s online dictionary, and the NUKULAR pronunciation is now considered OK. That’s disgusting to me.
I think you’re right on. Thanks for your election posts. I’ve always thought facism was something that happened in other countries, but the past few years have just been embarassing for our country. What’s truly scary is how many Americans support facist ideals.
JAM, Merriam-Webster (assuming that’s the Webster’s you mean) is a descriptive dictionary, not a prescriptive one. Which means that seeing something in there doesn’t mean it’s right, it just means people do it often. Same thing for spellings and usages.
You are completely spot on with every observation. I used to think you were overchicked; now I’m wondering if dooce is overduded.
BTW, Dave Neiwert is almost done with a series on the rise of fascim that’s being spearheaded by the right. Here’s a link to the first 6 posts on the topic:
http://tinyurl.com/53r2d
Bill Clinton in 1996 captured Bin Laden. (The military had captured Bin Laden.) When asked what they should do with him he said “Let him go. He’s done nothing to us.”
I know that the overwhelming marjority of those that post comments here are Pro-Kerry. So I propose a question:
Would your feeling towards John Kerry change if it became fact that he was originally dishonorably discharged (charged with war crimes and treason) and only after Pres. Jimmy Carter pardoned as a whole those that committed war crimes and treason( during Vietnam) that John Kerry’s dishonorable discharge changed to honorable?
http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/20/apr02/social.htm
Proof of Bin Laden’s capture?? Do you have a link or credible source?
John Kerry stood up to protest a war he fought in and disagreed with. Whatever the outcome, that took courage. Vietname was, at the admission of the most senior Pentagon level, a horrific mistake.
Ford pardoned Nixon. Which was worse? Kerry’s pardon?
Fighting for your country and then standing up against the war you fought is not treason. It is courageous. That you would label it as such underscores my fears of rabid nationalism from the right. I don’t think I’m alone.
Ashley…whaaaaaat? My feelings of Bush or Kerry aside…what the frickety-frack (Jon, you and Heather might want to adapt to this verbage because while “fuck” out of a 2 year old’s mouth might be endearing to you I PROMISE, it’s not nearly endearing to the Preschool teacher) did you just say?
Holy shitballs, I’m confused. And I’m pretty sure it’s not the tequila speaking.
Jimmy Carter, who is no longer President, should change Kerry’s Honorable Discharge to Dishonorable (because he admittedly committed war crimes) and then Pardon him for war crimes and then change the Dishonorable Discharge to an Honorable Discharge?
HUH?
I try hard every day to understand why and how people like and want to vote for Bush. I do this because I am the only person in my family who is a Democrat and who is not voting for Bush.
The unfortunate thing - in spite of America’s desire for buying everything from one place (and cheaply) like Wal-mart - is when it comes to our spokespeople, we become so focused on that ONE belief and we feel so strongly about, we’re unable to step aside and look at the whole picture. If you’re against Stem Cell Research, you’ll lean more toward Bush. If you’re against abortion, you’ll lean more for Bush. If you’re staunch religious, you’ll lean more for Bush. If you’re for gay marriage, you’ll lean towards Kerry. It’s an individual, and very passionate fight, funneled into two, small human minds, minds meant to represent a mass of people. The unfortunate thing is that neither candidate is Wal-mart. Neither candidate will give everyone what they want. They know this. Why can’t we?
I fear Bush. I fear him for a lot of reasons. I fear that he will further destroy the view of Americans for other countries. I fear that he DOES have the power to amend the constitution. I have always felt very safe with the fact that our House and our Senate can stop such blatant ideologies from coming to life. But I’m not so sure that Bush won’t undo this safety. I’m not so sure he won’t undo everything we, as Americans, have looked towards to protect us. I’m honestly afraid of him.
My dad loves the guy. He also is somewhat racist. He won’t admit to this, no way. But he is. He wouldn’t care if the entire middle east was turned into glass. Though he hasn’t said this, I have a feeling it’s true. But it’s not because he’s a bad person, it’s because he’s scared. And who can argue with fear? No one. Which is why our vice president is such a great advertisement for Bush’s reelection.
I can only hope that the people in America can put their individual needs aside for a minute and think about the people. Let’s all pretend, for a day (preferably November 2nd) that we’re all not the absolute motherfucking grade A motherfucking shit. Let’s all do what’s right for our nation.
Please? He’s not a just man. He’s not the right guy. And I promise, Kerry will not abort thousands of children or marry a bunch of gay men and women. He will not touch your precious bible.
(somehow, I have a feeling I will regret this post.)
Following Ashley’s lead:
What would the liberals think of George Bush as a leader and war president if he’d actually served in combat? Would his service make him more fit for the job because he’s been through war? Would he be better skilled in deploying troops and justifying battle because he’d received medals 30 or so years earlier?
What about Bush the politician–would he be a more credible president if he had a political resume outside of being a state’s governor? What if he had been a Senator for 20 years–would we be more likely to question his “track record”?
Win, lose, or draw, I’m fortunate to live in a highly liberal major city. I’ll be glad when this election is over. I hate what it has done to friends and family and neighbors and strangers. I hate the polarization of the political parties, I hate that there is this “I’m right, you’re wrong and stupid” mentality. I don’t think there is any absolutely right answer and I also don’t think this election has to be about choosing between the lesser of two evils. Anyone that implies (or, in the case of the political adverts, explicitly states) electing one man over the other is tantamount to inviting the terrorists and the rapists and the homosexual babykillers in for tea and semi-assault weapons is missing a few crucial chromosomes: to imply that a candidate is so is strictly unAmerican. Do you really think one of this country’s two major parties would nominate someone that, at heart, does not have America’s interests? Even if we don’t agree one hundred (or even ten) percent with what these politicians are doing, it doesn’t mean they are unAmerican.
Of course, with all that said, it’s hard work trying to find anything worthwhile with Bush. I try, though, to understand what it is that he’s trying to accomplish and I cannot make sense of it. I suppose that’s due in large part to the fact that I would like to see gays marry, keep control of my reproductive choice, and have a President that puts the health and welfare of American citizens first.
Sure, you might argue that what Bush is doing addresses my third concern directly–but it doesn’t. We can’t completely care for our own citizens, so just who the hell are we to think that we can make other countries better? I have to work two jobs just to be able to afford health care, I have a graduate degree that’s allegedly in high demand, but for all my accolades (summa cum laude), there isn’t a job out there that suits my profession. You could argue that I’m lucky I have one job, but that sort of reasoning can be turned against you–because why is it that I’m lucky I have one job? Oh, that’s right, because there are hundreds and thousands that have no job. But I suppose that’s less the administration’s fault and more their own. Because the unemployed and underemployed must not have the necessary education.
Right.
Until Americans are able to look past whatever political grudges they hold, this country will remain in a state of flux–political progress will be stagnant and this right vs. wrong mentality will only serve to drive the chasm deeper.
Jon:
I’m for Kerry, too, but you’ve really gotta get out of Utah sometime. You know as well as I that “Fascism” means a lot more than just the definition listed on Dictionary.com. It is a loaded word in American society, and your invocation of all of the images accorded to that word is getting pretty close to just coming out and calling Bush “Hitler.”
I’m fine with people saying whatever they want about the elections and the candidates. That’s America, and I believe that’s how it should be. However, I have infinitely more respect for the people who attempt to conduct dialogues concerning our political future in a constructive manner. I know that emotions run high during times such as these, and that’s fine. But no one should let emotions cloud their ability to make a well-informed and well-reasoned choice.
Of course, as I’ve already suggested, maybe your post is just a reaction to being surrounded by a polarized, right-wing community. It probably does seem closer to fascism out there.
The problem is that liberals see how rabid conservatives where against Clinton, but are mystified that there isn’t more rabid outrage against Bush. It is the same. If you can’t see that, then you’re blinded by partisianship. As someone who is completely objective ( I wish they could both lose!) I see how ridicoulous the left is being against Bush … I can see it because I remember how silly the right was against Clinton.
I wish people would stop attacking the other guy with all the ‘evil’ and ‘unamerican’ type charges. Just say you’re a liberal and feel more comfortable voting for someone who has a democrat label after their name. Same for the other side. Because at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. Voting for a national candidate on social issues doesn’t make sense. The President doesn’t make laws. If you don’t like the direction, change your Congressman or Senator. They are the ones who can truly make a difference. The National candidates just spew bullshit rheotric. Bush will not make it illegal to have an abortion. Kerry will not take away guns. It is all BULLSHIT rethoric to fire people up. To paralyze you into voting one way or the other.
And while we’re fighting over these two dumbasses, your local representatives are trying to pass a gay marriage ban.
Well put, Steve.
I’m tired of the rhetoric and vitriole. I’m also tired of hearing people say, “I don’t understand how ANYONE could vote for Bush blah blah blah …” Well, believe it and get over it. I can’t believe people drive Saturns, either. We bitch about living in states that are predominantly Republican or Democrat (depending on who we are and our political views), but it’s an ideal world if we all vote for the same person to be President?
Not since Ronald Reagan ran against Mondale has the majority of the nation been anywhere close to agreement on who should be President. In that election, Reagan took every state but Mondale’s home state, Minnesota. Yeah, let’s hear the liberals talk about what a mistake THAT was. But it’s your ideal situation where Kerry’s concerned, isn’t it? We’re all biased.
Anyhow, I look forward to the day when there’s a candidate out there that takes the cake again, be they Democrat or Republican or another party. I wonder if it will ever happen … and if it would be a good thing.
I mention fascism mostly for those living in the interior of the country. In larger cities, it’s less apparent. When people talk about being afraid of the next four years, I think those fears are well-founded. And I think it’s important to see trends. If this administration continues, I believe we’ll take steps closer to fascism.
It’s never good when a leader claims to be called of God. Or feels like there is a “divine mission”.
I don’t have anything against organizaed religion, but I don’t think that it’s a requirement for someone to forego their intellect to have faith. And that seems to be the case, because of the polarization. I realize that I may be contributing to the divisive climate, but I’m also seeing that if I don’t say anything, perhaps my voice in the chorus can do some good.
And when I say some good, I mean to say that people are involved in the process, regardless of viewpoint.
Truth be told, I’d probably be happier living in a more progressive country. I don’t, so I’m going to try to make this country better. Sure, it’s a feeble attempt, but I’m using the tools I have. I’m trying to stand up and be counted.
I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. I actually expect people to disagree.
I don’t think Bush is Un-American. I think he’s bad for America. And bad for the world.
It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and opt out by claiming moral superiority because the process is tainted or by elevating oneself above the fray. This election cycle, I couldn’t do that. I did that in 2000 and after seeing the mess, I couldn’t be silent this year.
Ashley: If it became “fact” that Kerry was dishonorably discharged, which he wasn’t, it wouldn’t change for one second the facts we can all confirm: that he voluntarily enlisted and actually served in a war, and therefore knows what we are asking of the men and women in the military when we send them into battle; and that when he returned, he spoke out against the mistake of Vietnam with eloquence, passion and courage. It would not change the fact that John Kerry has spent his entire life in public service. Whatever your position on the political spectrum, it’s just ugly to denigrate the life of a man who is anything but contemptible. I don’t see how you can point to Kerry’s military record with disapprobation, and then vote for Bush, who was busy avoiding military service, and partying it up while Kerry was in Vietnam; and since then, has presided over the deaths of more than 1,100 American soldiers, and more than 16,000 Iraqi people based on, at best, faulty intelligence, and at worst, lies.
Kerry is BY FAR the better man, and I hope to god we elect him president on Tuesday. I should have an ulcer by then.
I hope this isn’t your last pre-election posting Jon, I really do enjoy reading everyone’s opinions and thoughts. I have my own, of course, but its good to hear from the people instead of the politicians. I’m anxious to read the post-election postings!
I will not post while drunk on blurbomat ever again.
Jon,
I get what you’re saying. I appreciate you standing up and making your voice be heard, the best you can. You feel that Bush is bad for America … I think that’s your rally cry and I respect it. Most Kerry supporters that I’m around spend their days talking about how evil and dumb Bush is. That approach is just wrong and not at all accurate. It is as wrong as the Bush supporters that spend their day questioning Kerry’s Vietnam record. The man fought for our country and was decorated. That’s honorable. End of story.
So, I’m not one who is trying to elevate myself above the fray … I’m trying to debate facts. I want to talk about something real. These silly charges that “Bush is evil. Stupidest President ever.” or “He will take away a woman’s right to her own body” just drive me crazy. They are not truthful, nor are they helpful in the debate on choosing our leader. They are as useless as the “Kerry would be France’s butt boy.”
Alas, I know that no matter how hard I try to engage someone on the election and have a real debate, it quickly degrades into their partisian right wing-left wing talking points.
At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter who we choose. It doesn’t. The environment that has been created in Washington is such that nothing will really get done. If taxes are cut or raised or even if we go to War again … it will be the Congress that makes it so. What will happen is that whoever wins on the 2nd, will spend the next four years working towards the preservation of his party. Just keep your guys in power … that’s the key. Both sides will do anything to have a job. They just won’t do anything about us when they get it. They don’t have to … we’re too busy bitching at each other … pointing the finger at the President.
In a truly prefascist environment, Chuck would have been killed weeks ago, and the police would be too afraid to do anything about it. They would instead nervously suggest that it could have been worse, and that it would be best for everyone if Blurbomat stick to discussions of web page design. This, by the way, is how Saddam Hussein came into and maintained power. His Baath party remnants are trying the same thing right now.
Jon, how many books have you read about Nazi Germany? Francoís Spain? Stalin, Lenin, Dzerhinsky, Beria? Robespierreís France? Do you really understand what a ìfascistî is, and how deeply different Heinrich Himmler is from John Ashcroft?
The closest thing we have had to a fascist in this country was Oliver North, and he lost a Senate seat in conservative Virginia to Chuck Robb. I know, because I voted for Senator Robbís tax-and-spend, pro-choice, pro-gay rights liberal ass to keep Colonel North far from power. Ugh. Oh yeah, Richard Nixon ñ who resigned just before a majority of the Republicans in Congress could vote for impeachment.
Conservatives, unlike you, by and large understand ìfascismî and have turned on their own to stop its precursors. I guess liberals, or at least some of them, think ìfascismî is little more than an appropriate bedtime bogeyman for their collective persecution fantasies and GOTV efforts. With such childish notions as these, itís unsurprising that you would think that Saddam Hussein could have been handled by negotiation.
DJ -
you say: “Truth be told, I’d probably be happier living in a more progressive country. I don’t, so I’m going to try to make this country better. Sure, it’s a feeble attempt, but I’m using the tools I have. I’m trying to stand up and be counted. ”
I’m just curious - what’s stopping you from living in a more progressive country?
Also - I am a Republican. Not because I think guns are great or war is great or that I should be able to stomp on Democrats. I am a Republican because I think only God has the right to kill (in terms of abortion…which scares and saddens me more than criminals being put to death - although that is plenty sad to me). That belief leads to being against embryonic stem cell research. That in itself is not limited as much as some people believe…do the research. I’m also against sitting back and doing nothing when other countries are being oppressed by terrorists. Sometimes war is just. Taking over other countries just for the hell of it is not what we’re talking about here.
BUT - I can see why Democrats are scared. I can see why they don’t like Bush. I commend them for fighting for their beliefs. I love the fact that here in America we have the right to those beliefs. I love that I can be a Christian and not be murdered for it. I don’t live in fear.
mihow, I’m behind you one-hundred percent.
In mid-September, 2001, I listened to Bush talk to the country and the world in the wake of the terrorist attacks. I listened to Bush and really believed that he was the man to lead us through the pain, to search out and bring to justice the terrorists who had attacked us, and to bring a world-united to fight the terror. At the time, I didn’t care about the economy or health care or any other political hot buttons. I cared that the President was standing up for me, my family, my neighbors and the rest of my country.
We all know what became of the promise of that day. The UN (ie, world-united) inspectors found no evidence of WMDs in Iraq. bin Laden (ie, the terrorist) holed up in the mountains of Afghanistan while Bush pursued a deck of cards of Iraqi leaders. Record millions upon millions of people marched worldwide in protest of George Bush and his insistence that “if you aren’t with us, you’re against us.”
Today, I feel less safe than on September 11. I feel less safe because more people across the world hate or distrust America than before. I feel less safe because George Bush, backed by his singular “eligious calling,” is leading us to battle people who have a mass “religious calling” to hurt the American way of life.
Never mind my personal stance on the other issues that may be equally as important as the safety of the American people. George Bush failed to bring a world that was united against terror together in the fight. He disolved relationships that had been developed across centuries. And he has created a jagged divide in this country that three years ago was the most unified in decades.
In September 2001, George W. Bush was my President. On November 2, 2004, I’m exercising my power to make sure he doesn’t get the chance to blow it again.
I always enjoy it how a large number of covervatives (and I live in DC, so I get fair mix of both groups) will use words like “communist” to describe liberals. Politicans will always use words that will catch the attention of their audience. I personally wouldn’t stress about it. We all know what they mean.
My personal favorite is “Kerry is the most liberal member of the senate” Of course, lets ignore how conservative the senate is as a whole so being the most liberal senator is really not that big a deal. It puts him right in the middle of the larger political spectrum.
Now being the most liberal member of the HOUSE. Phew is that another story.
I doubt we are descending into fascism. Yeah, this is a deeply divided nation, and by some accounts this election is fraught with character assassination as never before– but we have had vile and slanderous elections, and we will persevere through this.
My only concern is that election day violence might erupt, and the partisan “election monitors” will turn the presidential election into a political machine.
Latest wrinkle, from today’s Washington Post:
“Mark Weaver, a lawyer for the Ohio Republican Party, said yesterday’s ruling does not prevent the party from going forward with plans to place 3,400 monitors in polling places, particularly in heavily Democratic urban areas. The challenges will take place Tuesday instead of being decided beforehand, he said.”
I love the fact that Eddie actually found a way to use the phrase, “Kerry would be France’s butt boy” in a tempered, thoughtful political discussion.
Jon, I don’t want to suggest that I hold myself above the fray, and I agree with you concerning the “chorus of voices.” That was well put. I, and I think others commenting today, believe however that the message of the chorus is largely lost when infiltrated by much of the angry and/or biased garbage that spews out of just about every media outlet for months previous to the elections. I know, I live in Wisconsin (a “battlegound state” that will likely go republican), where the political machine has brought all candidates, their wives, running mates, THEIR wives, cousins, aunts, uncles, “butt boys” (sorry couldn’t resist), and their commercials to visit virtually every day for the past two weeks. While I appreciate the opportunity to have all of the close-up looks at the leadership (or hopefully, soon-to-be leadership) of our country, I could do without the shit-mongering that goes with it.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean about living in a more progressive country, however. You’ve alluded to the fact that there are parts of this country that are more forward-thinking than others. I still believe in America, and it makes me upset to see popular figures (e.g. Johnny Depp et al.) denigrate their citizenship and move to other countries. I think your statements that we have to make where we live a better place are right on. In fact, that’s the idea that the USA was built on: the power of the consensus to build a better place. The concensus, however, is swayed by the voices of individuals.
In turn, we have to trust those individuals who have influence to sway the consensus to speak rationally and sensibly, albeit with a passion for a better future, which brings me back to my original point.
i think, and correct me if i am wrong, that Jon is making his comparison using a very specific definition of fascism quoted directly from a source available for all to view at their leisure. yes? he did not call Bush Hitler, i don’t think. i didn’t see that anywhere. there are degrees of everything and one does not have to be an Adolf Hitler to be a fascist of display fascist tendencies.
what i would hope is that this startlingly accurate comparison Jon has drawn would open the eyes of some of GWBs flock of followers. this hope is lost, though, i can see.
whether GWB is an outright fascist or just a brainless hick who shouldn’t weild any more power than afforded in a gas powered lawn mower, the definition Jon has quoted gives us every reason to consider the comparison.
right now there is a very small portion of the world’s poulation who hates the US enough to attack and terrorize them. but for some strange reason your government thinks it’s a good idea to alienate the rest of the global community. it seems to me as though he’s looking for more enemies, not the opposite. you have so many people around the world who care about the fate of your country and never want another september 11th to happen to you or anyone else. why would GWB want to alienate good friends like that?
but whatever, Bush supporters, if you want to be the kid on the playground who has no friends because you’re mean and untrustworthy, all the power to ya. i just feel bad for the Americans who do see that the world is a big place and being hated by everyone isn’t the best idea going.
i understand that having your country attacked is terrifying and for some being that afraid clouds judgement but i just wish more of you would realize how clouded your judgement has really been. you’re thining with your fear and that is never a good idea.
Honeystrain … you say: “you’re thinking with your fear and that is neer a good idea.”
You are doing the same thing. Your judgement is equally as crowded. Things are going to change until we change the way we think. Bush is not evil because he’s Republican and Kerry is not a pussy because he’s a Democrat.
“Things are [not] going to change until we change the way we think. ”
And posts like “Three Things” are examples of the overheated, ignorant (sorry, but there is no other word), emotional “thinking” that has made this debate such a mess.
Fellow Utahn here. I absolutely hate it when conservatives, like reenie, say “what’s stopping you from living in a more progressive country?”
We wish we lived in a more progressive country … called the United States. This is our country. Our place of birth. We want our country to be progressive, as it once was when it was founded.
I also hate it when people, like reenie, say things like ” I am a Republican because I think only God has the right to kill.”
This is rather ironic to me because as we all know, this president of yours has re-invented the methods and the efficiency with which to kill people. Whether its capitally punishing mentally-retarded Texans or patriotic young Americans doing their duty.
FISH - I also live in Wisconsin. In fact, we might even live in the same city. I think Wisconsin will definitely go Democrat. It usually does. What makes you think it will go Republican?
You want to live in a more progressive country? What country would that be? I mean, the US isn’t perfect by any strecth of the imagination … but, we’re by far the best place to live. I’ve lived other places … they aren’t as open as it seems.
Anne: Two things: First, there’s a lot more “Rhinelanders” than there are “Madisons” in this state. Business takes me to the Nort-woods der hey often enough. Parts of it make Utah look like a brave new world.
Second: those damn Marquette students trying to fix the polls again (teehee).
Anyway, its just an opinion based on a gut feeling, for whatever that’s worth.
A couple of things. First of all, my earlier comment was addled by Nutella and more than a little disjointed.
I’m not afraid as much as I am trying to be diligent. As a citizen, I watched this administration ignore and try to circumvent the Geneva Convention. Abu Ghraib was not an accident. With minds like this in ANY administration, I think it’s time to look hard and take a stand.
Yes, this is my stand. This is also my country. I think the U.S. has many opportunities to lead and be inclusive, even in the face of horrifying attacks. Instead of rising above, we’ve sunken into the fray. I want this country to be better, and I’m willing to stay here and try, with my limited ability, reach and effort to make it better.
And, of course, I’d love to live in… France!!! (see dooce entry). Joke. I want the U.S. to be more progressive. It may be a losing proposition, but I don’t want to give up just yet.
Umm, Blurb… you forgot an exclamation point after France!!!!
I don’t think its a losing proposition. Take heart from the Red Sox-anything is possible.
FISH - Interesting. My husband will be so happy to hear that, as *his* gut feeling is that we’ll break the other way. Actually, isn’t a higher voter turnout amongst college students generally a vote for the Dem candidate? Maybe I’m not up-to-speed with what’s going on at Marquette.
“This is also my country.”
Who denies it? Besides idiots, I mean.
“I’m willing to stay here and try, with my limited ability, reach and effort to make it better.”
By calling elected officials in a constitutional democracy “fascists”?
I just love all the comments from “nobody” here. It’s easy to blast and insult others when you’re doing so in anonimity on another person’s personal website.
Jon, how ’bout deleting the anonymous “nobody”s? Would “anybody” care?
I’m sorry but telling some one to just “get over it” is so insulting. Personally, I’m glad that people are passionate about who will be their leader. Making analogies between picking a car and the most powerful leader in the world? Brilliant.
I am leaning as well. We do need some serious change from the direction we have been going….God bless those Red Sox!
CB - my point was for people to stop acting so incredulous that there are people with differing viewpoints from their own out there. It wasn’t a call to political ennui, but rather a call to redirect one’s energy and focus to the bigger issues, rather than remarking about other people’s supposed stupidity. ON BOTH SIDES. The Saturn reference was supposed to be flip to indicate that differences of opinion run the gamut in “seriousness” but are still important.
You missed the larger point of my original post and it wasn’t because I didn’t make myself clear. Take the chip off your shoulder, please.
Anne: As usual my attempts at sarcastic humor are neither sarcastic enough nor humorous enough. I was referring to the “scandal” on the Marquette campus during the last pres. election, where several students managed to vote 20 or more different times (I actually don’t know who they voted for). I’m sure your husband (or his boss, if your husband is the rjp that works for Jensen) would remember.
(BEGIN PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE)
As for which way WI will go, the last election proved that a mere few thousand of us can turn it one way or another in any given state. No matter which way you go, go to the polls. We’re all talking about our ideas of America and how they differ. The one thing we all have in common is the opportunity to vote. Use it.
(END PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE)
FISH, why you little Googling bastard! That was a joke, in case anyone deems it necessary to rush to your defense. Sorry I missed the sarcasm. My husband has since moved up/down? the political slime echelons and is a lobbyist now. I applaud your research.
George Bush: “If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I’m the dictator.” December 18, 2000.
This forum has at various times explained other people’s views in terms of their fear, ignorance, intolerance — personal feelings of which the author cannot possibly have knowledge. Others, not the author, have attacked conservatives in the coarsest terms. I have offered 1) a refutation of the suggestion that our country is approaching fascism, 2) an alternative notion of fascism, 3) evidence for my refutation. Iíve stated that the very idea suggests a poor understanding of political violence which might explain the authorís views on the war.
If you feel “blasted” and “insulted” by THAT, imagine how other people will feel when called ìfascistsî or ìintolerantî.
That said, itís not my sandbox and Iíll leave if its owner wants me to.
My point, Nobody, is not that you haven’t made your point and made your point clearly. I don’t even disagree with your line of thought.
My point is that you’ve taken to using words like “childish”, “overheated”, and “ignorant” in reference to the author of this weblog while trying to make your point that name-calling or labelling is mis-guided without the thorough knowledge of that person or the meaning of that word. And my larger point is that you’re doing so under the veil of “Nobody,” which makes it appear that you’re willing to dish out your disagreements without allowing anyone here to challenge you.
I don’t feel blasted or insulted. But I do feel that your Nobody guise is an insult to those who have the nerve to say where they stand and use a name.
And I’ve used neither “fascists” or “insulted” with respect to anyone in this forum…
Already voted for Kerry.
While I consider myself a Democrat, I could see myself voting for someone like John McCain or even Colin Powell. I would favor a realist like one of them over an idealist from either party.
Sorry. I meant “intolerant.” Not “insulted.”
I’m suddenly singing Silvia.
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/robertlafollette.htm
If Bush does win - there’s tons of land going for cheap in Canada - take advantage of the exchange rate and come on over, we’d love to have you!
Liz: didn’t you see “Bowling for Columbine?” Are you sure you want all of us belligerant Americans coming up and micking up your beautiful country?