Comments on: Advertising Homophobia and Losing

By: Goingape

Goingape — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 04:09:42 +0000

Jezzie, sorry that I can’t operate on your time table. Somehow my profs don’t accept “blogging” as an excuse for not having my dissertation completed. Oh well.

Otherwise, I hope that ya’ll will still have me around here even though my beliefs are different. But politically I think you’ll find we’re not much different. I’ve posted a very bad post about my thoughts on homosexuality. It was the best I could come up with after a full day of classes. blegh.

By: Jezzie

Jezzie — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:47:45 +0000

Apeman, just spit it out, we’re aaallll busy. Say whats on your mind or, here’s an idea, wait until you have time to complete a thought. It’s not polite or cohesive to break into a conversation, drop an F bomb, then run to the wet bar for a refill on your white wine spritzer. The beauty of this format is that social awkwardness can be disguised by thinking while you compose your post, and then revising until its what you wanted to say, and then p-o-s-t-i-n-g at the appropriate time chi-ching!

By: Sam Merrill

Sam Merrill — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:24:20 +0000

Goingape - Thanks for the kudos. I try to be an honest person so when I say I was guessing I was being truthful. I have sat in many a christian therapist office trying to overcome my same sex attraction not to recogize the spin.

Like I said earlier if I missed the mark then I apologize. I would however like to see a summary of your beliefs on homosexuality. Don’t worry, I’m not trying to trap you or anything. I happen to be a (marginal) Christian myself. I’m just curious to know what your view is on homosexuality.

By: Goingape

Goingape — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:26:34 +0000

Well, either because you’re clever, or you did a little looking around, you’re right that I’m in psych and that I’m a Christian. However, you are making broad assumptions about my personal beliefs, my practice as a professional, and my philosophy. And they are wrong ;), and I hope I can bore that out. I tend to stick around. I don’t comment and run over the long haul. And that’s why I didn’t want to come out say that forthright, because I do feel that in certain forums people will make assumptions just because I claim a certain faith and field of study.

More later…I’m late for staff meeting.

By: Sam Merrill

Sam Merrill — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:47:31 +0000

addendum: I also wanted to point out that your Exodus statistics are inflated and wildly distorted. But don’t take my word for it, you can read it here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1183596,00.html

By: Sam Merrill

Sam Merrill — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:33:42 +0000

I think I have a pretty good idea what your “take” on homosexuality might be. I may be wrong and I apologize in advance if I shoot wide of the mark.

I have a suspicion that your background is Christian and your career interest is Psychology. I’m going to guess that you want to use a Christian approach to therapy. Therefore in keeping with your Christian values you’re going to approach the issue of homosexuality as a Behavioral Disorder. A mental illness. One that can be treated and cured with proper therapy. I’m not going to insult you by saying you’re going into the field of Reparative Therapy. I have been a recipient of said therapy and I’m here to say it doesn’t work.

I also would like to point out that your Exodus information has the faint odor of spam. You may not agree with their approach but you share their ideology that homosexuality can be cured.

I wouldn’t bother going into the gay gene argument and the difference between inherited and heritable traits. That has been masticated thoroughly. The claim that behavioral traits cannot be inherited is slowly eroding away to new discoveries in gene research that behavioral traits can be inherited.

Also heritable traits do not explain homosexual behavior in other species. Species that are nowhere near as complex as homo sapien sapien. You cannot blame a domineering mother or defensive detachment on gay behavior in sheep or geese. The idea is ludicrous.

If homosexuality were strictly a behaviorial disorder then it should parallel other behavioral disorders as far as population distribution and treatment success rates. Which it doesn’t. It’s not even close.

Maybe we should pay more attention to bigotry and intolerance rather than trying to find a cure for us poor homosexuals.

By: Goingape

Goingape — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:34:42 +0000

First, I am going to say what I am NOT saying. I am NOT saying that the above billboard is in good taste. I am making no statement about my own personal beliefs in regard to homosexuality. I just happen to be in a position to be in a context where I have access to inside information into Exodus and same sex attraction/ homosexuality as it is viewed from the Christian world. The information I am about to share is not my opinion. It’s just information. I have my own thoughts on it, and hopefully will soon post them on my own blog, but I’m in grad school, so I’m a little busy these days.

Exodus International is a Christian ministry that wants to provide therapy for those Christians who do believe that homosexual behavior is sinful, or against their beliefs. Based on my information, this organization holds strongly to the belief that if someone does hold to a belief system that leads them to believe that homosexuality is wrong, then that person should have the right to access services that are in accordance with those beliefs.

Exodus does not claim to be able to guarantee change the sexual orientation of anyone, and roughly 30% of those who willingly, by choice seek to change their orientation do so successfully and are satisfied with their choice. Another 30% no longer have attraction to the same sex but do not develop attraction for the opposite sex. Roughly 30% more experience no change in attraction/sexual orientation.

I quote no source because there will be a book based on a study of Exodus International that should be released within the next year. Because of where I am in school and what not, I’ve had some access to some information in my courses. It will be controversial, just as all of our posts here have been.

Okay, take that information and run with it. It just seemed relevant to our little discussion here. Giving my opinions would take forever and hijack Jon’s blog…so I won’t. Like I said, hopefully soon in my own little corner of the blogosphere.

By: Jezzie

Jezzie — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:19:13 +0000

I hurt so much for those kids (like Sam) who picked up the subtle (and not so subtle) messages of hate from society, and who felt ethnic friends, or being in touch with their sexual identity, or not measuring up in the eyes of some ego defined “God” that is always watching…these cultural behaviors translate to mean: predjudice, bigotry, selfishness, egocentric conformity, self doubt, shame and paranoia that someone else may be free of the chains in which their psyches exist.
What kind of sad individuals prefer that world?
How many adults we all encounter in non-intimate ways such as business or schooling, incommerce, etc, are living in their own hell of denial and perpetrating it against others because it is their judgement mindset; they apply it in their own esteem of themselves, and therefore justify outrageous acts of discrimination and hate/ fear based judgement of others, meantime they hate the mirror as well and use their religious dogma as a shield against anyone seeing their true pathetic nature.
Look at them folks….they are all around us, gritting their teeth, clenching their ass, shaking their fists at the lives others lead. Honestly, we need to feel compassion for the haters of the world, whatever we suffered on our way to self awareness, at least we evolved. Shit, we could be THEM. Gotta say from experience, gay is waaaay better than crazy:)
Thanks Jon, you give good Blog.
Jess

By: kcbelles

kcbelles — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:03:44 +0000

I was raised Catholic, and the God I know isn’t the wrathful, angry god that the bible thumpers seem to believe in - the God I know is loving and all-accepting of all His/Her children. Groups like Exodus scare me - they can do so much harm. Why can’t the homophobes see that love between two people is a good thing? When I see stories like this, I always remember that this great nation was founded by Puritans. I truly believe there is a good deal of Puritism still alive in many folks.

My partner and I are a few of the lucky ones - both of our families accept and love us both. A cute story - my mother-in-law/won’t/let/us/marry was from the old school - very involved in the Church, very devout. When my partner came out to her and explained that she was in love with a woman, MIL said, “yes, OK, dear, but is she Catholic?” Thank goodness we were able to reply “yes!”

By: Nessacery

Nessacery — Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:59:28 +0000

Well, I’ve been reading your blog for a couple of months and many times have been compelled by what you’ve had to say.
After reading this entry, I had to comment but also needed to put my thoughts in order and really think this one over and put my thoughts together. This type of ignorance, prejudice, and bigotry angers me so much.
I grew up with my mom and step-father and when I was 15 years old, I tracked my birth father down. Before meeting him, I met his mother and the very first thing she said to me was “the first thing I want you to know is that he’s gay, in the event that this would make you not want to meet him.”
It absolutely floored me that she thought that his homosexuality would make me not want to know my father. Because of the way she phrased this, making it seem like she was protecting her son and his emotions, I assumed that she was accepting of his lifestyle.
The truth was that my fathers orientation was such an issue with his family that he was in his early 30’s before he came out and to avoid as much confrontation and judgement as possible, he had moved 3,000 miles away.
His christian family claims to be open and accepting of his orientation, but theres always the back handed comments about how the fear for his soul. Although he has been “out” for close to 20 years now, I am still the only member of the family to have ever met any of the men in his life because of his familys prejudice and judgement. To this day, he’s still ashamed when one of his nieces or nephews learns of his orientation.
He and I now have a great relationship and he regularly harasses me to provide him with grandchildren and I know that he will be an amazing grandfather. I certainly hope that whenever that does happen that he is secure in knowing that any children I have will be raised to not have these kinds of biggoted views and that he is never the least bit ashamed of who is he with his grandchild(ren).