Conservative Desperation
August 31st, 2006For this administration to compare Iraq to World War II (see any mainstream media appearance this week by a Bush appointee) seems like the final act in what has been a tragedy from the start. Before I start a rant, I think Keith Olbermann’s response to Donald Rumsfeld’s speech to the American Legion says it better than I can:
Will any of this have an influence on who people vote for this November? o
August 31st, 2006 at 4:39 pm
Wow. That was beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:03 pm
Jesus H. Hernandez!! Couldn’t have said it better myself. When I heard the beginnings of the comparisons to Nazis and fascists, I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
And in answer to your last question: Doubtful, at least from these parts. We’re sheep, remember? baahaa, baaaahaaa…..
August 31st, 2006 at 5:45 pm
I, for one, hope that people see Olbermann’s thought provoking critique and decide to take a stand.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:23 pm
Well…I was listening to NPR this evening and they were talking to one of the vets in Utah (I think it was Utah) who had attended one of Bush’s speeches. He did the whole comparison thing there, too, and the vet was really offended. But then he went on to say, “I’ll still support him.” He ALSO said, and this is what kills me, that he doesn’t know if Bush “knows what he’s doing” but he STILL will support him.
So, no. I don’t think this will change the voting habits of the hard-core Republicans.
August 31st, 2006 at 6:48 pm
yes, wow amazing. thanks for the linkage.
August 31st, 2006 at 7:10 pm
When I came across the cnn.com report of Mr. Rumsfield’s speech on Tuesday, I immediately wrote him an open letter stating that he was suffering from moral and intellectual confusion. Unfortunately, it was nearly as eloquent as Keith Olbermann. Now the President is spewing the same rhetoric. There may be some hardcore Republicans who will continue to vote for Bush, et al. But I’m mad enough now to do what I can to shut them up and work to replace every Republican in state or federal office that supports him/them. The end result, I’m NOT morally or intellectually confused anymore!
Thanks for sharing the clip!
August 31st, 2006 at 8:17 pm
definitely. very murrow of him (except for the part where he actually quotes murrow, because murrow wasn’t the kind of guy to quote himself, really). he’s the only non-yahoo on the air.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:39 pm
Nope, won’t make a difference most unfortunately.
Here’s another OpEd response to Rummy y’all may like.
(L.A. Times free sub possibly needed)
http://tinyurl.com/el4em
How many days till Jan. ‘09 again? Sigh.
September 1st, 2006 at 1:06 am
Brilliant. I hope it starts a bigger conversation on the subject. I only wish we had these types of conversations, say, four years ago.
As for the 2006 elections, I tend to be a pessimist. The incompetence of the Bush Administration was in full bloom during 2002 and 2004, but it didn’t seem to make a difference.
But it’s looking like I may be wrong. It looks like there is a very real chance that the Dems will take back the house. If that happens, congressional hearings will be coming to a town near you.
Impeachment? Dare to dream. But it seems quite likely history will not judge this administration kindly.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:57 am
Magnificent.
September 1st, 2006 at 4:29 am
Thank you for this link. Sometimes it’s really hard to feel optimistic, but then a single voice can make a difference for another day.
September 1st, 2006 at 6:04 am
My goodness, he seems really worked up. Clearly he’s a very clever man, it’s no wonder his ratings are so good.
September 1st, 2006 at 6:43 am
I have to hope people have had enough of this tomfoolery, otherwise I won’t be able to get out of bed in the morning.
jon, glad to see you’re feeling a bit better and have got the old fire back in your belly. the good kind of fire, I mean.
September 1st, 2006 at 6:57 am
I think it may only have an effect on the free-thinking moderates that are lurking around. The die hard lefties and righties are going to stick with the home teams, I reckon.
I have a feeling that the ol’ pendulum is swinging back around though. It’s time for it.
September 1st, 2006 at 7:15 am
This is the Bush administration’s third major attempt to rally support for its increasingly unpopular war. None of these rhetorical blitzkreigs have significantly swayed public opinion for very long, and approval ratings have steadily declined.
I doubt that rhetoric from either side of the debate will affect the results of the November elections. There’s a growing feeling of disillusionment with the current government, however, and I think even Republicans are starting to consider a change in leadership. All the polls suggest that many incumbent Republicans face an uphill battle, to say the least, which was certainly not the case in 2004.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:09 am
Finally an articulate liberal pundit with some cojones! Olbermann’s is the only tv commentary I can bear to watch these days. Missed this show, so thanks for the link.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:31 am
“Impeachment? Dare to dream. But it seems quite likely history will not judge this administration kindly.”
I abhorr the concept of life lived in hindsight, but i’m afraid Mr. Workman is right, and the only justice for our time will be the judgement of future generations.
ps…Jon, I know Heather must have her reasons for leaving the comments closed, but can I just say well played, my good man, well played.
Chivalry is not dead, you are one of the finest men I have ever had the pleasure of comming in contact with. Thats not ass kissing, I just think if my son grows up to be anything like you, I will have done a good job.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:33 am
I don’t know whether to be relieved or aggrieved after watching that. Relieved, because at least *someone* said it, spoke out, argued eloquently. Agrieved because I believe everything he said was true and not enough people understand why they should care. I am without cable television right now, so I thank you Jon for provoking my thoughts by posting it on your site.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:35 am
If I wouldn’t have been at work, that speech would have brought a tear to my eye.
Wonderful.
September 1st, 2006 at 8:48 am
Will it make a difference in how we vote? Not if there’s another “terrorist threat”. Was everyone paying attention to the timing of the England/liquid bomb scare? Good.
This guy is great! Makes me wonder how much longer he’ll be left on the air…and I wish he’d made the correct analogy to WWII: Bush’s administration is not the administration of a blind fool hoping to appease a growing threat to the world at large. It is a fascist, growing threat to the world at large.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:22 am
All the comments have been have so far been an anti-Bush circle jerk so let me say this; WWII these 3 wars (Afghanistan, Iraq and general War on Terror) are not, but they are standing up to a new form of fascism and that is where the WWII comparison begins and ends. Now I know all of you are furiously pounding away a response, after reading that last sentence, about how American is being just as fascist through our current military endevors. But there is a fine line between fascism, and any of its 31 flavors, and what I think more aptly describes America’s position, cultural imperialism. By any definition America is an imperialist nation and that is not necessarily a bad thing. There always will be nations with imperialist goals, so why not be the leader? The muslim extremist movement that has spawned homicidal fundamentalists is a reaction to America’s cultural imperialism. And while our cultural imperialism spreads sex and materialism along with tolerance and knowledge, the response on the fundamentalist’s part to this rapid expansion and redefinition of cultural norms has been shun it all and revert to what they believe to be holy and ordainded by God. That goes for almost all fundamentalists Christian and Muslim alike. It just so happens that what some fundamentalist muslim sects believe to be ordainded by God infact repeals all of the rights that America as a nation is built on.
In summation, no it’s not WWII and that is a stupid, lame tactic. Yes, it is a violent form of fascism that cannot be tollerated and yes Keith Olberman is very eloquent.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:27 am
Thank you for posting this - it’s good to see someone still practicing responsible journalism like Olbermann.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:59 am
If I had my way as a historian, I would wipe the whole Munich Agreement right off history books. It so overused and misused.
September 1st, 2006 at 12:24 pm
but on the upshot for the Administration:
September 1st, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Thanks for posting this, it needs as wide an audience as possible.
September 1st, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Well said, Keith Olberman. And I have to say to Mark7r0n that your statement “By any definition America is an imperialist nation and that is not necessarily a bad thing. There always will be nations with imperialist goals, so why not be the leader?” makes about as much since as saying, “There will always be playground bullies, so why not make sure your kid is the most intimidating one around?”
September 1st, 2006 at 4:21 pm
I think folks nowadays have too much of a team mentality to be swayed by eloquent commentaries. People in the US seem to vote for their chosen team. All sides do it, too. Democrats vote for Democrats that suck, Republicans vote for Republicans that suck, etc. Folks didn’t seem to care about how conservative Clinton was or how liberal Bush Sr. was, they voted along party lines anyway because, by God, their team HAD TO WIN.
What a joke. Hopefully some day folks will wake up, ignore the party labels and actually vote based on issues.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:20 pm
what an awesome speech by olbermann. He rocks! I think i sent this to everyone i know.
Thanks for showing me.
September 2nd, 2006 at 8:13 am
Donald Rumsfeld and the rest of the Bush Administration are totally out of touch with reality. Thus it is good that people like Keith Olbermann have a platform to speak for those of us who do not agree with their propaganda.
September 2nd, 2006 at 9:46 am
To Goingape
Does the modern American form of imperialism equate to physical bullying? I don’t think it does. The imperial war we rage as a nation is based on a fought with ideas, lifestyles and products through the population of corporate citizens. You suggest that as a nation America is violently oppressing all it surveys. Please look at who we are currently in conflict with ideologically, diplomatically or militarily and let me know who you would like to relinquish power and authority to:
Iran
Iraqi Insurgence
Taliban
Hezbollah
Hamaas/Palestine
China - UN Security Council regarding to Iran
Russia - Same
Venezuela
N. Korea
Mayanmar
Syria
Do you see a common thread that runs through all these couintries? They all, to varying degrees, actively limit the rights of their citizens. The influx of American culture into these countries, or the regions some of these institutions occupy, is the main source of conflict with the hard-liners who are the ones at the helm of the oppressive-natured regimes.
Might I also remind you that no power or control that is achieved through shed blood and loss of life is given up peaceably. It is the reason the US never joined the League of Nations and it is the reason the UN is inneffective today. I know its dystopic, but it is the world we live in.
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:36 pm
What will influence who people vote for this November? Good question. Maybe the real 64-dollar question is the demographic/social profile of those who *do* actually vote, i.e., if the voting public is comprised primarily of people who are buying the current administration’s propaganda, there is little hope of any change. Unless it happens to go hand in hand with our personal economic well-being. Ironically (or not), that seems to be the modus operandi of the government. Where was the imperialist U.S. when Yugoslavia was falling apart? I didn’t see billions of dollars being poured into a campaign to protect the democratic rights of the those poor people. Guess there just weren’t enough oil fields.
Thanks for the post, Jon. It is good to know, in any case, that there are some thinking heads out there.
September 3rd, 2006 at 5:16 pm
Excellent linkage.
Can I branch off on a completely inappropriate tangent to say how much I LOVE LOVE LOVE Heather’s September masthead?
I nominate the Blurbodoocery for President, with Chuck as Secretary of State and Leta as Attorney General.
September 3rd, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Mark7r0n: Most of us who oppose whatís going on in Iraq are not in denial about how dangerous the world is right now. We know the terrorists are out there, and we know what they want to do to those who do not share their vision. Weíre just not willing to take this fallacious leap: The world is a dangerous place and there are those who want to do us harm, ergo, what we are doing in Iraq is right and we need to ëstay the course.í When you have a problem with hornets, you donít grab a big stick and bat at the hive. Itís a strategic mistake.
There was absolutely no justifiable reason for us to invade and occupy Iraq. Hussainís military capability was reduced to rubble after the first Gulf War. The country did not possess and had no capacity to produce nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction. The Iraqi government had no connection to the religious extremists who have a fetish for blowing up airliners. Itís safe to assume that Hussain, a completely secular leader, perceived the likes of Al Qaida as a threat to his own power. Containment was working, but it just wasnít enough for our warmongering President.
Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Iraq knew how this debacle would pan out. This isnít France weíre trying to liberate or Germany weíre trying to rebuild; this is a country with three separate ethnic groups that hate each other and have hated each other for generations. The chances of democracy thriving in Iraq are about the same as Stephen Hawking getting a stint on ìDancing with the Stars.î About the only common ground the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds share is their mutual contempt for most things American.
Most of the bloodshed going on now is a long overdue grudge match between the Shiites and the Sunnis. This has little to do with terrorism and almost everything to do with civil war, and weíre caught in the middle of it because Bush and his croniesófor whatever reasonócouldnít resist lancing the festering boil. Sneak in a few C4 loving mullas from Syria and Jordan just for fun, and look! Scores of innocent Iraqis slaughtered every day. Our brave men and women are being killed every day. The situation is getting worse every single day, and thereís no clear way for us to get the hell out without losing face big time.
Bush knows that, so we ëstay the courseí and watch the body countótheirs and oursórise. He lied to us to get us into this mess and the lies continue to this very minute. He and Rumsfeld and Rice can pound their pulpits all they want, but those of us who see the forest for the trees know they come across with the credibility of Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf.
So, how will it end? Iíd love to be wrong, but I bet we eventually pull out, Viet Nam style. The Shiites and Sunnis will go at it until someone as bad as or worse than Hussain rises through the carnage to throw down his iron fist and chainmail glove. Then it will be back to business as usual in Iraq. We will have accomplished nothing except to create the perfect Petri dish for spawning even more terrorists.
September 3rd, 2006 at 10:51 pm
I don’t want to be a blog hijacker, so unless Jon keeps the comments open cause he likes this bantering or Mark7… has a particular question for me, this will be my last comment on the topic and we can agree to disagree.
I agree with Halfway Crucified and her/his comments. Preemptively starting a war based on false intelligence and fabricated connections between a terrorist attack (9/11) and a dictatorial government is poor policy, and wrong. Imperialism is the making of empires. And empires seek to take over other entities to expand their lands and their reign. It’s all about more resources, more exploitation, and more control.
Imperialism looks like a damn good thing until the empire rules your beliefs out of style. That’s when empires start limiting freedoms, and torturing people, etc.
Do I think that the U.S. has a responsibility with its resources to extend help to other areas of the world? Yes, how about sending some help over to Sudan. Or setting up a few vaccine factories in South Africa.
But getting in a pissing contest over oil in Iraq, not what we should be all about.
Also, fundamentalism is sick in all forms regardless of the ideology. However, unless one sets out to actually undertake destructive acts, then I believe you ought to be free to believe what you want. Hitler was a sick fuck, who would’ve been just fine if he hadn’t decided that his own form of imperialism was what the world needed. Nobody would have noticed if he was just sitting at home thinking his twisted messed up thoughts and not trying to overtake the world and make them believe as he did.
The entities you listed are all very scary governments or groups. But I don’t think that foreign policy should be based on fear.