Conservative Desperation
August 31st, 2006For this administration to compare Iraq to World War II (see any mainstream media appearance this week by a Bush appointee) seems like the final act in what has been a tragedy from the start. Before I start a rant, I think Keith Olbermann’s response to Donald Rumsfeld’s speech to the American Legion says it better than I can:
Will any of this have an influence on who people vote for this November? o
September 1st, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Well said, Keith Olberman. And I have to say to Mark7r0n that your statement “By any definition America is an imperialist nation and that is not necessarily a bad thing. There always will be nations with imperialist goals, so why not be the leader?” makes about as much since as saying, “There will always be playground bullies, so why not make sure your kid is the most intimidating one around?”
September 1st, 2006 at 4:21 pm
I think folks nowadays have too much of a team mentality to be swayed by eloquent commentaries. People in the US seem to vote for their chosen team. All sides do it, too. Democrats vote for Democrats that suck, Republicans vote for Republicans that suck, etc. Folks didn’t seem to care about how conservative Clinton was or how liberal Bush Sr. was, they voted along party lines anyway because, by God, their team HAD TO WIN.
What a joke. Hopefully some day folks will wake up, ignore the party labels and actually vote based on issues.
September 1st, 2006 at 10:20 pm
what an awesome speech by olbermann. He rocks! I think i sent this to everyone i know.
Thanks for showing me.
September 2nd, 2006 at 8:13 am
Donald Rumsfeld and the rest of the Bush Administration are totally out of touch with reality. Thus it is good that people like Keith Olbermann have a platform to speak for those of us who do not agree with their propaganda.
September 2nd, 2006 at 9:46 am
To Goingape
Does the modern American form of imperialism equate to physical bullying? I don’t think it does. The imperial war we rage as a nation is based on a fought with ideas, lifestyles and products through the population of corporate citizens. You suggest that as a nation America is violently oppressing all it surveys. Please look at who we are currently in conflict with ideologically, diplomatically or militarily and let me know who you would like to relinquish power and authority to:
Iran
Iraqi Insurgence
Taliban
Hezbollah
Hamaas/Palestine
China - UN Security Council regarding to Iran
Russia - Same
Venezuela
N. Korea
Mayanmar
Syria
Do you see a common thread that runs through all these couintries? They all, to varying degrees, actively limit the rights of their citizens. The influx of American culture into these countries, or the regions some of these institutions occupy, is the main source of conflict with the hard-liners who are the ones at the helm of the oppressive-natured regimes.
Might I also remind you that no power or control that is achieved through shed blood and loss of life is given up peaceably. It is the reason the US never joined the League of Nations and it is the reason the UN is inneffective today. I know its dystopic, but it is the world we live in.
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:36 pm
What will influence who people vote for this November? Good question. Maybe the real 64-dollar question is the demographic/social profile of those who *do* actually vote, i.e., if the voting public is comprised primarily of people who are buying the current administration’s propaganda, there is little hope of any change. Unless it happens to go hand in hand with our personal economic well-being. Ironically (or not), that seems to be the modus operandi of the government. Where was the imperialist U.S. when Yugoslavia was falling apart? I didn’t see billions of dollars being poured into a campaign to protect the democratic rights of the those poor people. Guess there just weren’t enough oil fields.
Thanks for the post, Jon. It is good to know, in any case, that there are some thinking heads out there.
September 3rd, 2006 at 5:16 pm
Excellent linkage.
Can I branch off on a completely inappropriate tangent to say how much I LOVE LOVE LOVE Heather’s September masthead?
I nominate the Blurbodoocery for President, with Chuck as Secretary of State and Leta as Attorney General.
September 3rd, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Mark7r0n: Most of us who oppose whatís going on in Iraq are not in denial about how dangerous the world is right now. We know the terrorists are out there, and we know what they want to do to those who do not share their vision. Weíre just not willing to take this fallacious leap: The world is a dangerous place and there are those who want to do us harm, ergo, what we are doing in Iraq is right and we need to ëstay the course.í When you have a problem with hornets, you donít grab a big stick and bat at the hive. Itís a strategic mistake.
There was absolutely no justifiable reason for us to invade and occupy Iraq. Hussainís military capability was reduced to rubble after the first Gulf War. The country did not possess and had no capacity to produce nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction. The Iraqi government had no connection to the religious extremists who have a fetish for blowing up airliners. Itís safe to assume that Hussain, a completely secular leader, perceived the likes of Al Qaida as a threat to his own power. Containment was working, but it just wasnít enough for our warmongering President.
Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Iraq knew how this debacle would pan out. This isnít France weíre trying to liberate or Germany weíre trying to rebuild; this is a country with three separate ethnic groups that hate each other and have hated each other for generations. The chances of democracy thriving in Iraq are about the same as Stephen Hawking getting a stint on ìDancing with the Stars.î About the only common ground the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds share is their mutual contempt for most things American.
Most of the bloodshed going on now is a long overdue grudge match between the Shiites and the Sunnis. This has little to do with terrorism and almost everything to do with civil war, and weíre caught in the middle of it because Bush and his croniesófor whatever reasonócouldnít resist lancing the festering boil. Sneak in a few C4 loving mullas from Syria and Jordan just for fun, and look! Scores of innocent Iraqis slaughtered every day. Our brave men and women are being killed every day. The situation is getting worse every single day, and thereís no clear way for us to get the hell out without losing face big time.
Bush knows that, so we ëstay the courseí and watch the body countótheirs and oursórise. He lied to us to get us into this mess and the lies continue to this very minute. He and Rumsfeld and Rice can pound their pulpits all they want, but those of us who see the forest for the trees know they come across with the credibility of Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf.
So, how will it end? Iíd love to be wrong, but I bet we eventually pull out, Viet Nam style. The Shiites and Sunnis will go at it until someone as bad as or worse than Hussain rises through the carnage to throw down his iron fist and chainmail glove. Then it will be back to business as usual in Iraq. We will have accomplished nothing except to create the perfect Petri dish for spawning even more terrorists.
September 3rd, 2006 at 10:51 pm
I don’t want to be a blog hijacker, so unless Jon keeps the comments open cause he likes this bantering or Mark7… has a particular question for me, this will be my last comment on the topic and we can agree to disagree.
I agree with Halfway Crucified and her/his comments. Preemptively starting a war based on false intelligence and fabricated connections between a terrorist attack (9/11) and a dictatorial government is poor policy, and wrong. Imperialism is the making of empires. And empires seek to take over other entities to expand their lands and their reign. It’s all about more resources, more exploitation, and more control.
Imperialism looks like a damn good thing until the empire rules your beliefs out of style. That’s when empires start limiting freedoms, and torturing people, etc.
Do I think that the U.S. has a responsibility with its resources to extend help to other areas of the world? Yes, how about sending some help over to Sudan. Or setting up a few vaccine factories in South Africa.
But getting in a pissing contest over oil in Iraq, not what we should be all about.
Also, fundamentalism is sick in all forms regardless of the ideology. However, unless one sets out to actually undertake destructive acts, then I believe you ought to be free to believe what you want. Hitler was a sick fuck, who would’ve been just fine if he hadn’t decided that his own form of imperialism was what the world needed. Nobody would have noticed if he was just sitting at home thinking his twisted messed up thoughts and not trying to overtake the world and make them believe as he did.
The entities you listed are all very scary governments or groups. But I don’t think that foreign policy should be based on fear.