Comments on: Let the Arguing Commence http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/ Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:51:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Stu Mark http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21216 Stu Mark Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:18:20 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21216 First, Stewart Copeland was the Buddy Rich of his time. I'm a Neil Peart fan, to be sure, but he doesn't quite have the finesse, the gentility of Mr. Copeland. Second, in case anyone is actually reading this besides Mr. Armstrong, "Don't Box Me In" is a tune that you must find, hear, absorb, and become one with. Third, while Buddy could solo better than anyone, ever, I'm not as blindly devoted to his playing in a groove with other musicians. He was great. No doubt. And he worked with giants - Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, Benny Goodman, Ella Fitzgerald, Lester Young, Louis Armstrong, Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz... and that's not half the list of the greats he played with. However, when he played, in my opinion, he was a different drummer than when he soloed. He was less fierce, he was less risky, he was less awesome. And I get why, because he was the consummate professional in the studio. He knew what the composer/lead musician wanted, and gave it to them. He was supportive before he was anything else. No other musician has that lack of ego on recordings. Which begets a lesser rating from me, because I'm partial to the drummers who hang it over the edge, no matter what. I love jazz that's truly wild, unpredictable, like being the passenger of a drunk taxi driver. So for group playing, I'll take Jack DeJohnette over Buddy Rich any day. Fourth, what the hell happened to Stewart Copeland? He was astonishing back in the 80s. And yeah, he still records now and again, and he did some great work for Tom Waits a few years ago, but really, he just never turned into the giant that was Buddy Rich. Maybe that was Mr. Copeland's choice, I don't know. I'd like to think so, that while he was a genius at the drums, it was just a day-job to him, and that when he's not adding his magic to Mr. Waits or Mr. Claypool's music, he's enjoying his life on his terms. G-d bless him if that's the case. Fifth, thanks for this, John. You woke me up with this post. I think I'll head into the garage with the wife and see if I can persuade her to pick up the guitar while I caress the skins. First, Stewart Copeland was the Buddy Rich of his time. I’m a Neil Peart fan, to be sure, but he doesn’t quite have the finesse, the gentility of Mr. Copeland.

Second, in case anyone is actually reading this besides Mr. Armstrong, “Don’t Box Me In” is a tune that you must find, hear, absorb, and become one with.

Third, while Buddy could solo better than anyone, ever, I’m not as blindly devoted to his playing in a groove with other musicians. He was great. No doubt. And he worked with giants - Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, Benny Goodman, Ella Fitzgerald, Lester Young, Louis Armstrong, Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz… and that’s not half the list of the greats he played with.

However, when he played, in my opinion, he was a different drummer than when he soloed. He was less fierce, he was less risky, he was less awesome. And I get why, because he was the consummate professional in the studio. He knew what the composer/lead musician wanted, and gave it to them. He was supportive before he was anything else. No other musician has that lack of ego on recordings.

Which begets a lesser rating from me, because I’m partial to the drummers who hang it over the edge, no matter what. I love jazz that’s truly wild, unpredictable, like being the passenger of a drunk taxi driver.

So for group playing, I’ll take Jack DeJohnette over Buddy Rich any day.

Fourth, what the hell happened to Stewart Copeland? He was astonishing back in the 80s. And yeah, he still records now and again, and he did some great work for Tom Waits a few years ago, but really, he just never turned into the giant that was Buddy Rich. Maybe that was Mr. Copeland’s choice, I don’t know. I’d like to think so, that while he was a genius at the drums, it was just a day-job to him, and that when he’s not adding his magic to Mr. Waits or Mr. Claypool’s music, he’s enjoying his life on his terms. G-d bless him if that’s the case.

Fifth, thanks for this, John. You woke me up with this post. I think I’ll head into the garage with the wife and see if I can persuade her to pick up the guitar while I caress the skins.

]]> By: patatomic http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21199 patatomic Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:51:03 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21199 Oh man...it's all I can do to NOT sound like a total snob here, but there is so much I disagree with this list. A list full of soloists with zero team concept (yes, Buddy Rich being the ultimate "piss off it's my show" kinda guy). This list looks more like the "Modern Drummer said it's okay for us to like these guys" kind of list. Kinda funny how my favorites got eliminated early: - Bonham - Jim Keltner - Ringo (loses to Max Weinberg...really?) - Elvin Jones - Zigaboo - Keith Moon If Buddy's their guy then I'm happy most of my favorites didn't get that far. Notable absences: - Joey Baron - Mel Lewis - Buddy Miles (not to be confused with Butch Miles) - Levon Helm - Hal Blaine - Danny Richmond - Jabo Starks - Clyde Stubblefield - Chris Frantz These guys need to turn off the Phish, stop reading Modern Drummer and check into some other music. It's a big world out there. (Sorry Armstrong, you knew it was coming didn't you) Oh man…it’s all I can do to NOT sound like a total snob here, but there is so much I disagree with this list. A list full of soloists with zero team concept (yes, Buddy Rich being the ultimate “piss off it’s my show” kinda guy).

This list looks more like the “Modern Drummer said it’s okay for us to like these guys” kind of list.

Kinda funny how my favorites got eliminated early:
- Bonham
- Jim Keltner
- Ringo (loses to Max Weinberg…really?)
- Elvin Jones
- Zigaboo
- Keith Moon

If Buddy’s their guy then I’m happy most of my favorites didn’t get that far.

Notable absences:
- Joey Baron
- Mel Lewis
- Buddy Miles (not to be confused with Butch Miles)
- Levon Helm
- Hal Blaine
- Danny Richmond
- Jabo Starks
- Clyde Stubblefield
- Chris Frantz

These guys need to turn off the Phish, stop reading Modern Drummer and check into some other music. It’s a big world out there.

(Sorry Armstrong, you knew it was coming didn’t you)

]]> By: Dave Thomas http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21197 Dave Thomas Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:57:49 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21197 Not to hate, but Neil Peart is all chops, no taste. (Actually, that goes for the whole band -- which is not to say that Rush isn't tunz of fun, because they are.) As Gadd proves, a little restraint goes a long way. Not to hate, but Neil Peart is all chops, no taste. (Actually, that goes for the whole band — which is not to say that Rush isn’t tunz of fun, because they are.) As Gadd proves, a little restraint goes a long way.

]]> By: eric http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21196 eric Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:54:31 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21196 Gadd vs. Rich would have been a better final match-up. Buddy and Gadd on the same stage could likely play one another note for note. Gadd being the most recorded modern drummer, his chops have been lifted by everyone that inspires to hold a stick. Gadd vs. Rich would have been a better final match-up. Buddy and Gadd on the same stage could likely play one another note for note. Gadd being the most recorded modern drummer, his chops have been lifted by everyone that inspires to hold a stick.

]]> By: Kevin Worthington http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21194 Kevin Worthington Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:46:37 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21194 OK, sorry about all the comments. But, I found a video that really showcases Akira's footwork, which is unbelievable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhjOrj0Sm6I especially towards the end of the clip where he uses his left heel and toe on two separate pedals. OK, I will stop flooding this post now. Thanks. OK, sorry about all the comments. But, I found a video that really showcases Akira’s footwork, which is unbelievable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhjOrj0Sm6I especially towards the end of the clip where he uses his left heel and toe on two separate pedals. OK, I will stop flooding this post now. Thanks.

]]> By: Kevin Worthington http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21193 Kevin Worthington Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:30:08 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21193 Marty, I have never heard of Mike Mangini, but after watching that link I have to agree with you that he is indeed talented. Another guy that I remembered after posting yesterday was Akira Jimbo. I remember seeing a crazy bunch of solos that he did on instructional videos. Here's a YouTube clip of Akira: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY2Jj1KOCP0 BTW, Jon, great post! All the drummers are coming out of the woodwork. Marty, I have never heard of Mike Mangini, but after watching that link I have to agree with you that he is indeed talented.

Another guy that I remembered after posting yesterday was Akira Jimbo. I remember seeing a crazy bunch of solos that he did on instructional videos. Here’s a YouTube clip of Akira: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY2Jj1KOCP0

BTW, Jon, great post! All the drummers are coming out of the woodwork.

]]> By: Marty http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21192 Marty Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:27:34 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21192 Can I respectfully submit Mike Mangini as something of a talented bloke? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pROEtW2UGCc Can I respectfully submit Mike Mangini as something of a talented bloke?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pROEtW2UGCc

]]> By: Patrick http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21191 Patrick Wed, 29 Aug 2007 03:18:58 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21191 Jon Bonham, Keith Moon, and Ginger Baker steal the show in my book. Jon Bonham, Keith Moon, and Ginger Baker steal the show in my book.

]]> By: Louis http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21189 Louis Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:27:44 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21189 Although you do have to give it up to Dave Grohl for being able to kick it on set of kids drums - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyO7lvzfw5Q Ah hell ... they're all better than me. But I keep trying. Jon, you are right: DRUMMERS.RULE Although you do have to give it up to Dave Grohl for being able to kick it on set of kids drums - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyO7lvzfw5Q

Ah hell … they’re all better than me. But I keep trying. Jon, you are right: DRUMMERS.RULE

]]> By: Louis http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21188 Louis Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:18:15 +0000 http://blurbomat.com/archives/2007/08/28/let-the-arguing-commence/#comment-21188 BUDDY MILES!!!! Good call! I have been sitting here thinking who I want to send my drumming love to and have been all twisted up trying to make a decision. Got to give to Buddy. The Band of Gypsys album is amazing. Buddy Miles and Billy Cox definitely lay down the groove. I think that's the thing I was looking for ... a drummer who really grooves. Thanks Amanda! (I almost said Charlie Watts earlier in the day but figured that would raise some debate. Hey, the guy can keep time like no one else. A human metronome. Simplicity can be a beautiful thing) BUDDY MILES!!!! Good call! I have been sitting here thinking who I want to send my drumming love to and have been all twisted up trying to make a decision. Got to give to Buddy. The Band of Gypsys album is amazing. Buddy Miles and Billy Cox definitely lay down the groove. I think that’s the thing I was looking for … a drummer who really grooves. Thanks Amanda!

(I almost said Charlie Watts earlier in the day but figured that would raise some debate. Hey, the guy can keep time like no one else. A human metronome. Simplicity can be a beautiful thing)

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