How I Do
December 20th, 2007Several of you have made the request over the years that I share my perspectives on living with someone who has chronic depression. I’ve been reluctant to share for many reasons. The biggest reason I haven’t is that part of living with someone who can spiral downward and inward means that I have to be careful about what I say and do. If the fire is raging, you don’t throw fuel on it or add gunpowder to it. Day to day, I’m probably being overly cautious. During stressful times of the year or during stressful events, those days where I need to be careful are more frequent. It seems like we’ve barely been able to catch our breath until very recently and now it is holiday season. Which, as you are aware, contains no stress at all.
Fixing It by Not Fixing It
As a heterosexual man attracted to a woman, I have a range of emotions and ways of dealing with whatever life throws my way. One of those things is to look at a problem and want to fix it. Men like to be fixers, for the most part, and this is great for things like a clogged drain or dead car battery. Also great if the satellite dish isn’t picking up the latest “Nature is Sad” show on the educational channel because it’s buried in snow. It is not so great if your partner needs for you to help her by listening.
I’m not certain this is entirely gender-related, as I’m certain it is just as likely that a woman can be a fixer as well. It just keeps coming up for me that I can’t fix it and I need to shut up and listen. Almost two years ago, Leah Crawford interviewed me for her site, Leahpeah and asked me how Heather’s illness had affected my life. I wrote then that people in relationships, particularly the man, often have a strong desire to fix things. What I neglected to say then is that one of the best ways to help somebody is to shut up and listen. This is extraordinarily difficult for me as a talker. I’ve really had to stop myself and let it go. I have to tell myself that I need to LISTEN and to tell myself to SHUT UP. It’s doubly important when somebody is anxious or depressed and needs to get it out. I have only met a few men who are great listeners, and those were professionals I was paying to listen.
So. Listen.
Stress Management & Meds
In our case, Heather handles stress very differently than most people I know. She is a master internalizer and the whiff of brooding energy she emits outward is usually an indication that there is a much larger inner storm raging. I’ll usually try to get a calm moment when just the two of us can talk and I’ll have to ask her about five or six times if something is wrong or if she needs to talk. Having lived with her for awhile now, I can say that I can see this coming a few days off. Especially given some of the big things we’ve done in the past two years. Starting a business, selling our house by ourselves, moving, her projects, professional and occupational stress, etc. have all proven to be major stressors. I view my role as to simultaneously get things done and listen when called upon. I don’t regret this role, and I don’t begrudge it. I view every conversation as a chance to learn something new. And a chance for me to tell myself to listen.
As part of intense stress periods, I always have to ask, sometimes repeatedly, about medication levels. The professionals who successfully treated Heather for post-partum depression came up with a drug cocktail that saved Heather’s life. It’s my job to help her stay on those meds and help her assess whether or not they are working like they did in 2004. This will be an ongoing thing for the rest of her life. There are good days around the prescription discussion and not so good days. As with all chronic medication consumption, it is only natural to assume that one feels better and can taper off the meds. There have been several instances where I’ve noticed a higher state of anxiety and a certain tone in conversation, a withdrawal or unusual comment from Heather and felt the need to bring up medication as a state of emergency. Luckily, Heather responds and if she has changed her dosage, after we discuss (sometimes more pointedly than others) she takes it back to the levels that were prescribed. When the meds kick in, it’s like I’m living with the Heather who can cope and get through life. If she’s changed her meds, it’s not pretty. The stress on me during these times builds and builds. I have to be careful in how I release that stress. I also have to make time for me. I have had to learn that most of what is bothering Heather has nothing to do with me or our relationship. It has to do with her internalizing stress and how she deals with life when it gets overwhelming. To be sure, there are those times when I’ve done something wrong or I’m not doing enough or I’m caught up in a project and it causes friction. Just like every other relationship.
Our life is such that we must become adept at crisis management. Home ownership, parenthood and business ownership means that things are going to happen, sometimes all at once. I have to be in a good place to have a clear head to deal with whatever life is going to throw at me. This is not easy. I do a lot of self talk (sometimes freaking Heather out) to either practice conversations I need to have or help me work through a situation. I also have to be strong and assertive most of the time or else I’ll be blown over by the power of the illness.
I have to have a good amount of sleep to face the next day. I get this by taking an antihistamine that helps me sleep and dries out my perpetually runny nose. Side effect: used to be prescribed as a mild anti-depressant. Getting enough sleep makes it so much easier to listen and/or take over if Heather can’t function.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m always open to trying medication if I think I need it. Heather has suggested I try a few things in the past, but I’ve so far not had a steady course of anti-depressants. Typically, getting enough sleep, changing my life (sometimes with talk therapy) and managing my stress have helped me through the hardest of times. If I’m being a jerk, no medication is going to fix that. I have to recognize I’m being a jerk and work on it. I think everybody on the planet goes through jerk phases and being aware is the beginning to living a life that is less difficult on those around us.
Openness Leads to Success
I have to be open. Being raised as I was and given my own propensities, this is extremely difficult for me. I have admired Heather’s openness and willingness to share, but there is always that part of me that worries if there will be a cost later. I can’t decide if I was meant to be a risk management assessor, tin foil proponent or character in either an E.M. Forster or M. Somerset Maugham novel.
Talk therapy has been something that has saved me, saved my relationship with Heather and made our lives together stronger. It is hard work and difficult to hear and learn things about oneself, but I believe that every single person on the planet would benefit from talk therapy. Maybe one doesn’t need it all the time, but I view it as something that I can turn to and use to help navigate through life. I don’t think that because I’m living with Heather, I’ll do more therapy because of her illness. I need it for myself and together, we’ll need it for our relationship. It’s not weak or lame to face ones issues. It’s not strong to live in denial. It’s not strong to live in fear of talking about the dynamics of how we process life events or why we react the way we do. I only wish I had sought therapy after my father died and that in my first marriage, I had sought therapy earlier. I’m not sure that my life would be different, but perhaps better. I’m very happy now, and I love where I am, both professionally and personally. Most importantly, for Leta, I love where we are. She needs happy and healthy parents.
As with any chronic illness, any form of treatment needs to be done carefully and with supervision from professionals. I can’t stress enough how lucky we have been to have had doctors willing to try certain combinations of medicines. We’ve taken it into our own hands in the past and sought different doctors when it was clear that Heather was responding to medicine or a particular doctor has a propensity for a certain diagnosis or treatment that wasn’t helping. The saddest part of treating depression is that most doctors want to ramp up the medicine (for good reason) and it’s very difficult to see a response sometimes. I wish there were a better way to deliver a clinical dosage of meds on an outpatient basis. Most of my experience in this area comes from watching Heather start a medicine for a few weeks and have it either make her worse or have no effect. In order to deliver the dosage and right cocktail, Heather had to be in a hospital/facility where she could be monitored. There was no ramping up. And that is exactly what Heather needed.
One of the biggest and most detrimental side effects to being a partner of someone with a mental illness is that there is the impulse to not share the hard stuff with them for fear they can’t handle it. Likely corollary to that is that the disease is a part of our relationship, meaning it needs its own space. The meds and therapy continue to help, but the disease is always there. I have to be aware of those times where nearly every exchange, every gesture and every non-verbal cue is related to the illness in some way. This adds a burden to any relationship and ours is no different. One of the hardest things to write, is that Heather’s illness means that sometimes she can’t be there for me in a way that I need her to be. I learned this early on, but I still have a hard time making room in our relationship for the largest side effect on me of her illness. It’s not maliciousness on her part. It’s not ignorance. It’s that the disease is all-consuming. I do stand up for myself and I have to be more verbal than I’ve ever been about stating clearly that I need her or I’m having a rough day. Fortunately, those times are fewer as things have smoothed out career-wise and I’ve learned how to tell her that I’m struggling or I need to talk.
In every relationship there is work to be done. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship. There are people who are likely to be better suited for one another, but there is no magic. While this post might sound like it’s not worth it or that Heather and I are having problems, I should clarify that it’s not like that. If I didn’t care about Heather, or wasn’t willing to do the work that a relationship demands, I’d be worse off in my life. Living with Heather is worth it. I’m in love with her and willing. I feel that she shares this feeling about me and that makes all of this so much easier to live with and deal with. In my past, I’ve shied away from doing the hard work in a relationship and in looking back using talk-therapy and a few great therapists, I’ve been able to see that my own laziness and unwillingness to work has harmed myself and others. I’d be a fool if I didn’t take what I’ve learned from therapy and apply it to the best relationship I’ve ever known.
Get Help
To the people out there who denigrate mental health awareness and treatment, I say this: You aren’t helping. You are making it worse. Stop being an arrogant know-it-all. You aren’t right. You are wrong. If someone tells you they need help, your opinion means less than that of professionals. Stop being ignorant. Stop being obstinate. Stop insisting that your loved one, partner, child or co-worker “get over it”. They won’t get over it until you let it go and encourage them to seek help. There are many different approaches and ways to treat mental diseases and conditions. The first step is letting go. You could probably use some time talking it out yourself. o
Tags: depression, essay, stress, therapy
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December 20th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
As much as I love Heather’s posts about her depression, because they help me so much with clarifying my own struggles, this post of yours is most wonderful. With your permission, I’d like to save it out and have some of my family read it. I get so tired of being told to “get over it” from folks who are supposed to love me.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Wow. Thanks, Jon.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Good job. Thanks.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Thank you for posting this. I used to be married to a man who was bipolar. For us, it didn’t work out. But, oh did we try. But, your post got to me. Brought up things I hadn’t thought about in a while. Thank you. Thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Amazing post. Thanks for sharing this.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
My husband has been dealing with overwhelming depression and anxiety for several months now, and reading Heather’s blog has really helped me understand where he is coming from, what it’s like to live with this disease. Thank you so much for adding your perspective to the dialogue; it verbalized many of my own feelings, offered some new insights, and gives me hope that we can find a way to enjoy normal lives, too. I don’t think we hear enough from the people who choose to be with those who have chronic mental health problems.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Thanks Jon. I also have depression along with some other fun little issues and this post was so encouraging to read. In knowing that others can work through their relationship, and still be happy, (especially with a kid in the mix) gives me hope for me and my SO.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Nicely done, Jon.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Oh Jon, this is fantastic. I’ll make sure the husband reads it. BRAVO!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
This is exactly what I’ve needed to read. Thanks.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Wow, Jon. This was a very brave and powerful post. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
PS. The title of Heather’s post: I thought she was talking about YOU!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
I especially liked the part about how much you have learned about yourself through all of this. Also the part about how you both need to be healthy parents for your daughter. A lot of us parents don’t wish to repeat the programming that we were raised with.
A male friend of mine was just diagnosed with prostrate cancer and his physician said it may have been encouraged by his nightly use of antihistamines to induce sleep. FYI
Keep up the good work…..
December 20th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
I admire and respect you and Heather both more than words can say. To put so eloquently and articulately what mental illness is like, even with the advent of medications that can greatly alleviate the effects of our illness, is difficult at best.
I’ve lived in close control (and sometimes not so close) of my own mental illness and Heather has inspired more than has probably been given back to her.
You should write a book, John. Because just as I have to live with my Bipolar/GAD/OCD and control it well with meds, I also have to learn to cope with the mental illness of a spouse who has shunned medication.
I commend you, Mr. Armstrong. And your lovely wife, as well.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Thank you for such an insightful post. My husband needs to read this…just so he knows he is not alone. Thank you for speaking up and speaking out.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Long time reader, first time commenter. Maybe, for the first time ever, I finally have some insight into how my husband feels dealing with my chronic depression. He has never really been able to explain to me what it’s like, I think for fear of hurting me or making a bad day even worse. Thank you so much for finding the courage to share this. Like Heather, it’s hard for me to read this and remember the ten million little ways I and my disease have hurt my husband. But knowledge is power, anti-crazy drugs are salvation and talk therapy (for BOTH of us) is a must. Those who are too ignorant or arrogant to see this disease for what it is — A DISEASE — should be required to read these most recent posts from you and Heather. I believe the lives — and marriages — you may save are worth the risk of being so open. Here’s to more people letting go of the shame and flying their freak flags in 2008!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
This has to be my favorite point:
“One of the biggest and most detrimental side effects to being a partner of someone with a mental illness is that there is the impulse to not share the hard stuff with them for fear they can’t handle it.”
Thats the probably the hardest part for me. I told my partner that once, or perhaps a couple of times, that I feel like I can’t share the things I stress about because his reaction can make me sharing my problems entirely not worth it. One of these discussions led to him punching his recently passed father’s guitars.
If you tell them you can’t talk to them, they get upset because they feel like they’re subpar. If you tell them your problems, you take a chance that they will internalize it and both of you will be worse for it. Sometimes it seems like you can’t win, no matter what.
Listening definitely helps.
Thanks for the post. There are many articles written on the insiders point of view, but scarcely any on the outside of mental illness.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
“One of the biggest and most detrimental side effects to being a partner of someone with a mental illness is that there is the impulse to not share the hard stuff with them for fear they can’t handle it.”
Amen. I was in a similar long-term relationship, and this was my downfall. Personally, and as a couple. I never felt more alone with my problems and my life because I didn’t feel like I could share them for the reasons you mentioned. I did it to “protect” her and our delicate balance. But I lost myself. And then she walked out in July because *I* was suddenly the one with all of the problems. It seemed incredibly cruel and unfair. My head is still spinning, and my heart still aches, and now I’m the one on handfuls of antidepressants and therapy four times a week. I just hope she’s in a better place right now. And someday, I will be, too.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
As person with mild depression which is controlled via anti-depressants I appreciate this post in that we do not always realize the power of our disease. It is not always about us and the level of our days…thanks for the perspective.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Thanks.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
This was a good post. My mom was depressed most of my life, and I think the one thing she probably needed most was someone to listen. I really admire you and Heather and how you fight for each other.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
This is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing - you will help many, many people.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Very sensitive and insightful. You are really good at expressing yourself and the truth about mental illness.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Believe it or not, this gave me more insight to my husband in terms of my mental illness than I’ve ever had. I, like Heather, take medication every single day to regulate my moods. I struggle with depression, rage and mania (I’m bipolar) and therefore so does my husband. He is amazingly supportive and like you, has learned a lot about himself through my/our trials and tribulations. Thank you for this post. There were times while I was reading it that I thought you sounded a little harsh. But you know what? It was honest and real and beautifully written. Thank you SO much for sharing something so personal, in such a thoughtful way.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
What antihistamine do you use?
December 20th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Thanks, Jon.
I’m a proponent of talk therapy for every human on the planet as well. Were it not for an acute medical phobia, I’d see a doctor about medication too. (I know… I see the irony too)
December 20th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Thank you both
December 20th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
As a chronic depressive with several siblings of similar bent, I’ve been on both sides of the coin. I thank you so much for writing what you have, because it clearly encompasses what it’s like for us depending on where we all are in the cycle. My husband, Bill, is currently going through most of what you have described in his interactions with, and I love him so much for making such an effort to walk on egg shells on a daily basis for me. If it weren’t for the fact that we can speak so openly, our relationship would have failed a long time ago.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Thank you, that was beautiful.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Great strength. Great caretaker.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Thanks for posting this Jon. This backed up a lot of what I have learned, being in the “same” situation as yourself.
Knowing how hard it is, you are a good man for sticking it out through those tought times. And if they were nearly as tough as the times I have had with the person I love most, they are TOUGH TIMES.
But real men, that really love the person, will get through it WITH the other.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Thank you, I sent this to my boyfriend.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I just love you to pieces. You are so brave.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
I’ll join in the chorus of thanks. The severity of my depression is nowhere near that of Heather’s, but I have felt pangs of recognition in some of your descriptions. It helps a lot to hear the partner’s side – especially an involved, steadfast, loving partner.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Wow - this is really good.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
You’re a good guy.
I wish my first husband had had this to read when I was going through my years of depression.
I started with talk therapy and then went to pharmaceutical therapy as well, when it was all too overwhelming for me. He went to one session. He just wanted me “back to the way I used to be”. I called it a wish for a sitcom fix, meaning he wanted everything tied up neatly with a bow at the end of 30 minutes, including commercials.
That was 15 years ago. I left him and a job I loved and sat around aimlessly for almost 3 years. He still thinks I’ll eventually come back to him. I’ve been married to someone else for 8 years, someone I met after the divorce was final, who would come over and find me sitting at my computer with tears pouring down my face, totally unaware of them, and would make me get out of the house, even if just for a drive.
Life isn’t perfect but it’s good. Perfection is overrated and a wee bit boring.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Thank you so much for sharing, Jon.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Wow. I hope someday that there’s someone who loves ME like that. You and Heather both are amazing!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I was glad to read this. I’m the medicated one in my relationship. I’ve got a fixer (a litigator, of all things! Talk about trying to get an attorney to listen!) and I’m a woman and he’s the man in our little heterosexual relationship. In addition to depression, I’ve had cancer for ten years and have been on and off treatment. It wasn’t even until a few years ago that I added chronic depression to my chronic cancer. And who can blame me?
We also just bought our first apartment together in New York City (big big deal for me, as my parents didn’t own a house until I was in college, and I’m in my twenties, childless, unmarried), and are dealing with career issues and all the normal things that come along. The way my depression manifests itself is to shut down all the work on those normal things, perhaps to get through all those huge things. There’s work I can do, there’s work he can do much better than I can on a day when getting out of bed feels like the most enormous task I could ever accomplish. And I’ve been through three rounds of chemo in the last three years! It doesn’t always make sense what feels like something I can’t do, but I find out pretty quick what those things are and the consequences for trying to do them (usually a panic attack). This doesn’t go for chemo, I’m a champ at that. It goes for MOPPING MY KITCHEN FLOOR. Or FEEDING MY CATS.
Sorry to take up so much room here, I guess I am just thankful to read all of this. Feeling a little bit more normal never hurt anyone. Thank you very much for your discussion and openness.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Thank you for sharing this. I too live with a woman who has chronic depression. Your description of how this type of relationship works (or not) is spot on.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Thank you for writing this. Every insightful perspective on living with mental illness or with someone who has a mental illness is one step closer to ending the stigma and helping others get the assistance they may need to live life more fully.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
I just wanted to say thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Bravo.
And thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
This was a wonderful, and insightful piece. I have suffered with depression/ocd since I was a teenager, and was always told to “get over it”. There finally came a time in my life where I just knew that there was no “getting over it” and that I needed professional help not only for my sake, but for my husband, and my children. I truly believe that the medications, and the therapists have saved my life. I only hope that one day I can be helpful to someone in the same way, because I know all too well what that all consuming feeling is like.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Thanks, Jon.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Thanks for this. It’s wonderful.
I am a female fixer. Big time. A lot of what you write about — the urge to fix it, the fear that someone can’t handle something, the need to remember that this is a chronic illness, the very real need to recognize when someone needs help — reminds me of a previous relationship and the mistakes I made there. I’ve learned a lot, and I think your post will help me, and others, keep on learning.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Jon, thanks. Wishing you 3 all the best for 2008.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
thank you for this… you have put into words all the things i’ve not been capable of getting out there
December 20th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Thanks. My husband and I read this together, and he was moved to the point of tears. He knows what it’s like, because he has lived with and loved me for 22 years. Not a day goes by that I am not thankful for Matthew, our daughter Elizabeth, and Prozac. Merry Christmas!
December 20th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
You are a good man.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Wow–You are a such a gift to your wife! A lot of people would bail when up against something like this in a relationship, but it’s obvious that you’ve gone to extremes to understand both Heather’s illness, and your response to it is powerful and courageous. I once lived with someone who was severely depressed but the relationship did not survive because I was the only one trying to keep things together–that person let the illness consume him and was the sole basis for his identity. During that time, I read a book called When Someone You Love Is Depressed, which was very helpful, and also received some counseling. It sounds like you have great insight into the illness and your relationship, but others may benefit from the aforementioned book. Anyway, great post, you are all so lucky to have each other…it’s awesome to see how you’ve turned the trials you’ve gone through into strength! Bravo.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
The world would be a better place if there were more people like you in it. I commend your honesty, and willingness to give a voice to all those who watch loved ones battle mental illness.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Heather is lucky to have you - as you are to have her.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Wow, that was excellent. I have struggled with anxiety, OCD, and recently, a nervous breakdown after having my meds carelessly changed by a VERY careless physician, and to hear the point of view of a spouse is so refreshing and opens up a whole other vantage point. You are so right that most people know NOTHING when it comes to this topic and too many people are dismissive of mental illness - afraid of it - they don’t want to utter the words “mentally ill” or “psychiatrist”. If you are mentally ill, it means you are defective, somehow. This notion is stunning to me, and I want people to realize this - Mental illness is an illness like any other. It can be treated and the darkness that you may be living in can be lifted if you just take the steps necessary to help yourself and/or your loved one. There is nothing to be ashamed of. What got me through my ordeal was being as open and candid as possible, and not trying to hide from it or act like everything was okay.
Thank you for posting this - getting the word out about depression, anxiety, or any mental illness is so important - because so many people suffer from this or have a loved one who does. It is a daily learning process and it is hard work. But having someone like you as a spouse makes all the difference. I am lucky that my husband is just as understanding - even if he doesn’t totally understand, he TRIES to. Thank you for sharing, Jon.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
today was a bad day - no particular reason but I was torn between crawling under my desk to cry or punching someone out for breathing too loud. Maybe my meds aren’t working as well as they once did or maybe something is bothering me and it’s just easier to blame it on the illness. Maybe I just don’t know. I directed it at him and he talked me through it as he always does…understanding and positive. The guilt I feel for dumping it on him, for depending on him to make it better, for having the problem in the first place. He doesn’t deserve it and neither do you Jon - but thanks for taking us on anyway…
December 20th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Reading this post made me really happy. As someone who has gained a huge admiration and respect for Heather, I understand that it must be challenging at times for you to deal with the business, being a father and a husband, and also having to go through the darker times with Heather.
I admire your sincerity and I’m very sure that this post will make a lot of good to many people in a situation similar to your and Heather’s.
Thanks for this insightful post.
-Omar
December 20th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
As someone who battled clinical depression for two decades I couldn’t agree more. Getting over it never works but good doctors and great therapists do and there’s no reason NOT to live a life of joy instead of one where one perseveres to make it through another day.
I’ve managed to live in joy for almost three years now and they have been, without a doubt, the best three years of my 47-year life. And all I had to do was admit defeat and walk through the fire, coming out whole on the other side.
Thanks for reminding folks that mental health is just as important as the physical kind. Without it, life is simply not worth living for most.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
I’ve tried about half a dozen times to compose a comment here, but it keeps coming out all wrong. Let me just say that my mother in bipolar, and refuses to be medicated. It’s an impossible situation.
Heather is lucky to have you. You’re lucky to have each other.
thank you for this.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
If Heather weren’t married to you, I’d marry you. Except I already have a really great boyfriend. I sent him this.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
I have to let you both know how much I appreciate the fact that you’re open about depression and the dealing with it. It helps combat the “depression isn’t really an illness” mentality that’s out there. Thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
OK, here’s likely an unexpected side-effect from your post…
What do you think I should do if reading your post is like reading something that I’d write, but we haven’t tried to find out if something is wrong? I just thought it’s something I’d have to live with…
December 20th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I’m in college and my roommate (one of my best friends) suffers from depression that her very few therapists haven’t yet seen fit to treat with medication, so I see her raw emotions swing between giggle fits to hopeless, suicidal sadness in the space of an hour. It scares me; I’m a restrained person in general and my emotions usually aren’t very strong, so I don’t know how to deal with hers. This helps. Thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
the world needs more bloggers like you, and posts like this. happy holidays.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
My interactions with my “crazy” friends and significant others really brought a new perspective to mental illness. One where I knew there were going to be days where nothing I did or said was going to change their mood, change their perception of the world. That didn’t mean I didn’t try, or do my best to at the very least get them to smile, but I knew I wasn’t personally responsable for their happiness.
Boy was that a tough lesson, and not because I was trying to FIX the problem (see jon, you were right, there are women fixers), but because in my first long term relationship, my significant other placed a lot of blame and responsability upon me to/for keep(ing) him from falling appart. His issues and needs not being met with the medication or the help of his doctor/therapist/family, were according to him, my responsability, and I dissagreed with that.
My sanity was most important to me, and it meant leaving that relationship to keep it. Leaving a couple three relationships as it happened, because they refused, ignored, or denied the need for professional help. More to the point, my emotions and needs were secondary to theirs, and I could not accept that I was not worth all of the attention I paid them. My issues were deemed petty or insignificant in relation to their issues, unless it happened to be something in relation to them that I was caring for insufficiently.
I lost my shit after the last significant long term relationship, and no amount of therapy, drugs, or professional advice was going to fix that one. I just had to ride the crazy out, and fortunately I had a good support system in place when I was ready to face myself again. I don’t recommend my particalar coping technique for… well, Anyone. It worked for me, once, and Im pretty sure it would never work for me again, nor should it.
I made a rule for serious future relationship candidates: Compatibly Crazy. I realize in this day and age it is absolutely rediculous to believe that there is anyone out there who claims to be truly sane (if there is, I’m sorry if I offended you but you’re lying). The best I can hope therefore is that I can find someone who’s crazy fits my crazy. And if they’re able to admit to their particular brand and flavor of crazy, the better prepared I am to handle it. Better i said, not prfectly capable of doing so
There is no manual that can accurately tell you what will happen on any given day when, for whatever reason, things go bad. If there were, well, then jon your post might never have needed to be written. Thank you for saying it so well.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Awesome.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
sincere post - thanks for sharing it.
Please consider an Al-Anon meeting. the program saved my life as it gives us tools to find serenity in any storm. most won’t try it if their loved one isn’t an alcohlic. but it is a misunderstanding as we are loved ones of people with chronic illness. yes it began for the families and friends of alcohlics but in Alanon we keep the focus on ourselves and not on the alcohlic. because we need the support and the tools that helps us deal with chronic illness. it is hard to love some one who suffers from chronic depression. my alcohlic husband has been clean & sober and in AA for over 7 years now. He drank to self medicate his depression. Today he takes anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds instead of drinking. but without the 12 step program of Al-Anon his chronic depression was my illness too. I guess to best explain I should say that when you sit in the meetings it doesn’t matter if the person beside you is there because their qualifier is a drug addict or a sex addict or using any kind of substance addictively. Because in Al-Anon we focus on what is needed to love our sick family member - no matter what their illness. We are there for our recovery process.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
If I didn’t seek out talk therapy and Lexapro this year I may not have been celebrating this NY Eve. It’s been a hell of a ride, but finally I see a glimmer of light at the end of that tunnel.
Having good people like you and Heather talking openly about the horrors of depression, and how misunderstood it still is, has and will help so many. You’re both such exceptional human beings. I wish you both continued strength.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
You, Heather, and Leah are my heroes.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
if only more people thought like you…
I’m lucky - not depressed, neither is my wife, but both of us have been going to talk therapy since our mid 20s (helps when our families are abusive and/or quite, quite mad). Without it, I don’t know what my life would be like. Not pretty or dead is my best guess.
Thanks Jon - that was very open and honest. And just a bit tough to write and post I’d imagine (although you yanks do have the ability to open up in a way that frankly scares the bejeezus out of most australians).
Happy holidays.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
I think this is the best post you’ve ever written. Thank you for opening up like this.
Jules
December 20th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Thank you Jon, for sharing this.
My husband and I are going through a similar struggle, and this post has made so many things clearer for me as regards his experience. I will show this to him as well.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
I’ve been reading Heather’s website for years now and can’t even tell you how many times I’ve been able to sympathize with the way she feels or the things that life throws at her. This post was amazing and true in every sense. The number one problem in my marriage is the fact that my husband does not understand my depression, and it makes it worse that he’s a Marine.. they are taught that you can ‘get over’ anything, and he holds that against me. Maybe I can print this out and one day I might have the balls to show it to my husband. Thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Thank you for sharing this. I’ve been reading both of your websites for years now and I have always enjoyed them both. But what you’ve written today makes me feel better about my own marriage. And that’s a gift I wasn’t expecting. I often get depressed and my husband has said many times that he doesn’t want to share his burdens with me because he thinks I’ll freak out. Just knowing that I’m not the only one in a relationship like that is comforting. I do try to listen to him as well but it is really hard not to internalize his disappointments in life, especially when I’ve done something to add to it. So much of my frustration comes from wanting to be perfect, but we aren’t perfect are we? We just try to do the best we can and that’s all anyone can do. I’m happy that you two have found each other and are willing to do the best for each other. What a great gift you are to each other.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
Thanks for writing this, John. My husband and one of my step-children both deal with depression and ADD/ADHD issues. The medication thing is a constant struggle in our household, as any deviation from a standard schedule leads to missed meds, and depression spirals. And when you’ve got two people in the house doing it - good god. Throw PMS in and you have a good ol’ time.
I admit I’m not as good at handling it sometimes - at not saying things when I know one of them is only acting a certain way due to the depression…it’s hard to be “the bigger person”.
I’m sure maybe it doesn’t feel like it every day - but the two of you are really a great example of how to love.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Hi Jon,
Thank you so much–I feel really moved by your piece. My husband has been depressed for two years, and I think it’s probably the first time I’ve actually read another person’s experience of what it is like to live with that. Being a big fan of talk therapy myself, I assumed he would want that but he doesn’t, and so I’m now learning how to support myself, so that being his main support doesn’t overwhelm me. His condition is not as severe as Heather’s, but the experience is still intense. I’m a big fan of Heather and found this piece through a link from her blog. I’m now a big fan of you too (and Leta, of course)!! You’re very courageous!
December 20th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Thank you so much for sharing so much of yourself. Happy holidays to you and yours.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
You are a wise and compassionate man. Thank you for that beautiful post.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
What a tremendous blessing to be able to read about your relationship and the impact of depression from both your perspective and Heather’s. The two of you have done a wonderful service to so many people by being open about this topic. Between your post and Heather’s last week, I feel like I’ve been given an amazing Christmas gift. As someone who suffers from depression and has a father who is bipolar, I identify with both of you.
May the new year bring you, Heather, Leta and Chuck happiness and peace.
Thank you!
Leesavee
December 20th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Although I don’t suffer from chronic depression, I have had several episodes of severe depression during the past year, all affecting my family, close friends and partner. I was incredibly moved to read your post and admire your honesty - I’ve forwarded the link to a few people who have supported me through the tough times and would like to thank you for putting into words what many are afraid to articulate.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
You are a wonderful person and husband, Jon. Heather is lucky to have you, and you are lucky to have her. I enjoy reading both your blogs and the warm, fuzzy feelings I get knowing there are people married out there who have functional relationships and who are able to stick it out with each other through the awful and the wonderful, all while being generally hilarious and very approachable.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
You are my new hero, and I just started reading Heather’s blog yesterday.
My wife suffers from depression and social anxiety and reading your words hit home for me. We have a six-year old daughter (only one child), and my primary goal in life is to make sure my two girls are okay and happy. Then next comes me, my job, and all of that life entails.
Sure, there are times when I want to punch a hole in the wall, or tell my wife to just stop it, but I know it won’t solve anything. The biggest thing my wife needs is my support.
As you said in your blog, she needs someone to listen to you, and that is true of me too. I vowed when I married my wife three years ago that I would be there for every twist and turn, and that is still true today.
Again, thank you for your courage in writing this. Heather is blessed to have you as her lifelong partner.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
They’ve said it all, but thanks. This really helps me see the other side of it - and appreciate my spouse that much more.
Happy Holidays to everyone.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
I just wanted to say thank you for putting into words what so many of us experience. My husband has been taking medication for depression for over 15 years, now, and while it has definitely changed his life for the better, it doesn’t make all of the symptoms disappear.
I love him immensely and love my life with him, but there is definitely a different set of rules to living with a depressed person. It’s comforting somehow to see that it’s not something I’m alone in experiencing.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
On one hand you are lucky to have each other, on the other, luck has little to do with the hard work it takes to maintain a family, and deal with all the issues. I have to google talk therapy, it reminds me of Relationship Enhancement Therapy….empathic responding is big part of that method. I have to say…female hormones can make us all feel totally out of control, so irrational….human chemical balance has so many varibles…a continuum…
December 20th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
You are a special person and Heather is a lucky woman to be married to you. Happy holidays.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
This is great. You and Heather are widely read and influential on the ‘nets and so I hope you both continue to share your thoughts on getting help for mental illness and living intelligently and positively with the disease.
My mother-in-law suffered, untreated, most of her life, and just 5 years ago started a treatment program after making some attempts on her own life. Her family felt helpless for years but once she got into the system it became easier. Since she’s been getting professionally treated, it’s been so much better not only for her but for the whole family and all of her friends, etc. Everyone gets healthier and gets help along with the person who finally goes for help. Basically, when you help yourself, you help everybody.
It may not seem like much to a depressed person but it is SO ADMIRABLE to ask for help when you need it!
December 20th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Honestly, if I were to read what you said and strip it of all mention of mental illness, depression, or any of the myriad issues that all of us have - and deal with - in the relationships with those we love the most deeply, it seems to me that your attitudes toward how you and Heather deal with your lives, whether her issues or yours, and whether to do with mental illness or not, reverberate with a knowledge, understanding, and patience that would work in ALL relationships.
Your love for your soulmate shines through. Thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read in blogging, and really hit a chord with me. Your emotional journey seems to have helped you grow in every way–as a father, a husband and a person. Thank you for sharing. It enriches us all. P.S. I’m thinking of getting some help myself. Our younger daughter is a senior in high school, and making some choices that her dad and I don’t support. She wants to be a Mormon!
December 20th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Thank you for your honesty Jon, I want my husband to read it as well. I’m sure he can relate to what you wrote. Thank you for sharing that.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
Having a parent with this illness is very scary and you feel so alone. Thankfully Heather and Leta have you along for the ride. It is not easy to deal with life when a loved one is sick, but you seem to have good coping skills, and I admire you.
I thought it interesting that even though Heather is fully aware of how the meds help, she still lowers the dosage without sharing it with you first. This is the nature of the beast of mental illness.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Excellent writing about a difficult and painful personal subject. It took many long years to learn that simply listening was the most powerful support I could ever offer my wife, and that any sentence I formed beginning with “What you should do” or “You just need to” was the worst thing I could offer from the best place in my heart. Paying someone help us find new, healthy ways to talk to each other was the best decision we ever made as a couple, because I was lucky enough to marry my best friend.
And I cannot second the final paragraph more emphatically: I find that the folks who knock professional treatment are usually the ones who need it the most.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Heather is lucky to have a partner who’s smart enough, compassionate enough and loves her enough to “get it.” Not all of us who suffer from chronic depression are. We’re not always easy, but in the end I think we’re well worth the effort.
Thanks for this.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Thanks for writing this Jon. I can only hope that my future husband, whoever he is, will be as sensitive and mature as you are.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Jon-
Thank you. I am what you say we are. I always thought we were “difficult”. I’m sorry for all you have to do and at the same time we need you. I know we are good. And loveable. It took a long time to realize that. It’s nice to hear it from the other side.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Thank you for the insighful piece. I am going to share it with my son-in-law … he is a wonderful person and coping with my amazing, talented, bright daughter’s chronic depression.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
I enjoyed your frank discussion of your experience with depression as a disease. It really is hard on those of us who have to live with depressives. And a strong sense of self is so crucial otherwise you can easily get sucked into the spiral. It is a hardship that you can’t be the one who gets to do some leaning but it sounds like you have a good support system and coping techniques. Thanks for inspiring me to keep up the good fight for light.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
::Standing up and clapping::
As a person with under control depression and anxiety, I want to say that you hit the nail on the head. (At least in my opinion) We do need someone to be there and just listen sometimes. Not many people understand that. I’m just lucky to have found a man that does. And it sounds like Heather is very lucky too.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Jon,
thank you. my boyfriend is having to learn what it is like to live with someone who is depressed and who will probably cycle on and off meds for the rest of her life. We plan on getting married, and I knew, as I confided in one of my friends recently, that I needed help when I decided that I couldn’t be with him anymore, that I couldn’t be sad and be with him anymore.
and then realized hwo much i loved him, and called the doctor, because he is who I want to be with, I know this much for sure. His return from a business trip this week sealed that idea in my mind, that I want to be with him and only him forever.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
You are very brave, a very good person, and a wonderful partner. Thank you so much for writing about this issue with such honesty. Heather’s post has been inside my head for days now. Depression and anxiety have been a destructive force in my family and in my own life - I wonder how much of it could have been avoided if we could have had the understanding that you two have come to. Thank you for opening your selves up and opening up this dialogue. You are helping many, many people.
My Best to you and your family.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Thank you.
I am going to forward this to my husband…..
December 20th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Thank you, Jon.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Jon,
I hear you, all the way through. I think that the hardest part of being the person on the other side of the disease is taking care of yourself, and hopefully continue to grow and change. One of the hardest things I had to deal with in the beginning was not taking it personally. Not just for feeling responsible for her ‘moodiness’ or her wanting to sleep all day, but not feeling like a failure when I can’t ‘fix’ it.
My wife is my best friend. We’re both pains in each others butts, but she’s my partner and my life. I spent such a long time giving giving giving because I thought I could make it go away. Only by being strong and caring for myself have I been able to be healthy and happy. She’s worked through a lot of the stuff Heather and you have mentioned, so we’re seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.
Bravo for sharing man, I appreciate a lot of what you write. Makes me feel like there’s another guy/father/husband/geek out there who understands a little of where I am and where I want to be.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Jon, this makes me weep internally. For every person that suffers depression, I wish they all had a Jon in their lives. I wish you, Heather and Leta all that is beautiful in this world. Continue to be the heartbeat for each other, especially on those days when one’s heart feel like it can’t go on.
Take care, Mr. J.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Thank you so much. My DH suffers from depression and sometimes it carries over to me…makes me feel crappy that he feels so crappy he isn’t contributing to our relationship the way he does when he’s feeling well. This part really sums things up for me…great way to describe how I have been feeling:
“One of the hardest things to write, is that Heather’s illness means that sometimes she can’t be there for me in a way that I need her to be.”
December 20th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
that was lovely and ever so real
yr the real deal
bravo
December 20th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Jon,
Thank you for expressing your feelings about Heather’s mental illness and how it affects you and your relationship. This couldn’t have been easy for either one of you, and for both of you to open up to the world and share your story is very courageous and inspiring.
I think you both are very lucky to have found each other. I hope for the best for all of you.
Terry
December 20th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
My mother’s mental illness has colored my entire life and given me more painful memories than I care to think about. I have spent 17 years being angry at my parents for being sick and feeling sure that I caused it. My parents spent a lot of time in therapy, which meant that for years there was NO WAY I was going to therapy, because I didn’t want to end up like them. It has been 17 years and I finally went, and I finally admitted how angry and guilty I feel.
I visited my mother in a psych ward on more than one occasion. I had to explain to countless friends exactly what was “wrong” with my parents. I have attempted to “fix” WAY too many depressed, suicidal men because I could not fix my parents. I am telling you all this because I want you to tell Leta the one thing that no one ever told me, which is that nothing that happens to her mother or to you is her fault.
I can tell by the loving way you and Heather write about Leta that you are good parents. My parents were good parents too, but they never told me that it wasn’t my fault. They probably had no idea it needed to be said. So I am asking you to please, please tell Leta that. Thanks.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
I wish I could find all the right words to express what I feel after reading your post. But all I can come up with is Thank You. It is honest and profound and simply spot on.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
thank you jon
December 20th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Wow. I think I’m going to cry.
Thanks for the little glimpse at some of the things my husband must be struggling with.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Jon,
This post is absolutely amazing. I’m sitting here with tears in my eyes thinking about all the things the two (well, three) of you have been through and what you’ve all done to cope. You are obviously a very compassionate, loving and caring man and so very much in love with your wife. She is so lucky to have you, and you her. Thank you so much for sharing this.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
The last paragraph, that person you were talking about is me. I am that arrogant know-it-all that tells people that are important in my life to “get over it”.
I can honestly tell you, that those words, they are my thoughts and opinions. I don’t know what to say, other than, I now know that I have some work to do. I have some listening to do, I have some compassion to start handing out. I respect your honesty and I respect your candor. Thank you for throwing it to me in a fast pitch, hitting me in the stomach and making me feel some of your reality.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Thank you, Jon. I’m sure it was hard to write, but I appreciate your insights.
I went to a therapist several years ago to talk about how angry I would get at work over boneheaded decisions. I figured I would go to a few sessions and that would be it, but I am still going once or twice a month. It has really helped me look at the world through a different perspective.
The best to both of you. I wonder how living such public lives impacts this for both of you?
December 20th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Thank you so much for this piece. I spent four years in a relationship with someone who suffers from a mental illness and, for the most part of it, just didn’t figure out how to work with that part of her. I’m an upbeat, optimistic, and ridiculously cheerful person by nature; it’s hard for me to know what to do in the face of depression because I can’t– not even a little bit –empathize with it (because I’ve never come close to experiencing it). Subsequently, I never really knew how to act. Your post helps me think about that relationship on a deeper level; how did my reactions to her depression affect our relationship?
December 20th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Well done. VERY well done.
I have been reading your wife’s blog for years, but didn’t know this aspect of it all.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
I have been reading dooce since day one, I always suspected Heather was a lucky woman, now I’m sure.
Best of luck to the both of you. Thank you for sharing.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Jon, this is a great post and I’m really glad to have read it. Having been divorced once myself the only regret I have is also not getting help sooner. I honestly think that your comments are relevant in many ways, not just for those in a relationship with someone struggling with depression. One of the hardest things to realize is that as much as you may love someone or as much as you do get from a relationship, there is often a way in which someone cannot be there for you, whether it be due to a mental health issue or something else. It’s sometimes hard to let that go and appreciate all the fantastic other things one gets from a relationship.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
It seems as though everyone has covered all of the bases. I’m a long(ish) term reader of both sites and have similar experience - me the Heather to your Jon. Thank you for this piece. I appreciate it, my husband appreciates it and clearly, thousands of people who read the honesty that you and Heather put out there every day appreciate it. Kudos. Sharing this is likely the best gift you could give. Happy Holidays to you all. And again, thank you.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
wonderful post jon. i think you two will write a book together. i hope you do.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Thanks so much for writing this. I have a social anxiety disorder and before I found the medication that made me into a normal human being (I had no idea that it was possible to be happy, or relax, or just have fun) life was hard on my husband. He’s amazing, like it sounds like you are, and I think the fix-it thing is one of the biggest things for men to get over in any scenario.
I’m glad for Heather, that she has someone like you. I’m glad for me, that I have a husband like I do.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Thanks, Jon. Incredibly brave, candid, sensitive and honest. You and Heather do so much good for so many.
I only hope I find the person who will care for me the way you and Heather care for each other.
Therapy saved my life, too.
Happy and Peaceful Holidays to your family.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Jon:
“One of the hardest things to write, is that Heather’s illness means that sometimes she can’t be there for me in a way that I need her to be. I learned this early on, but I still have a hard time making room in our relationship for the largest side effect on me of her illness. It’s not maliciousness on her part. It’s not ignorance. It’s that the disease is all-consuming. I do stand up for myself and I have to be more verbal than I’ve ever been about stating clearly that I need her or I’m having a rough day.”
Great post as was Heather’s. Yours and Heather’s story has been a help to me as I have gone through a similar situation with my wife’s depression. What you describe here is so true as to what it is like to accommodate the illness. In our case the medications have seemingly controlled the illness to allow decent functioning most days. It takes more than just the medications to make it work, as you show so eloquently in your post, but without them I do not see how it could work at all, in our case.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Thank you, both you and Heather. You’re brave to come out and talk about what I suspect a lot of people are dealing with. After years of dealing with severe depression, my husband finally went on medication this year. Although it’s still not easy it is so much better for him and me and our relationship. There are so many things that you said that I was going “yea, that’s exactly right. Thank you both.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
this meant a lot to me as i was reading. thank you for sharing something so personal and for your candor.
i’m glad you and heather have each other.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
I’ve always admired Heather’s ability to be brutally honest on her blog, and I can now say the same for you. Thanks for being so real about the struggle you face as a couple every day. As someone who’s been in therapy for years and who has also been in a relationship with a man who suffered from severe depression, I’ve experienced both sides and I empathize with you and Heather. You’re both inspirations.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Thank you. You’re wonderful.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
The Internet should be thankful you two found each other. Many good things have uttered forth from the blurbodoocery, and this is one of the best. Nice work.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
thank you so much! I was diagnosed with depression a few years ago and am still trying to figure out what medications do and do not work! You commented on finding a doctor who will listen to what you have and had not tried and I finally have found a doctor to listen! I have a new found apprecitation for my mom and dad (i still live at home) and for all they do for me!
December 21st, 2007 at 12:26 am
I love that both you and Heather have written about this subject. I struggled for years with my own anxiety and panic disorder and my husband with his depression and ADHD. We have only been able to admit it to ourselves and each other and start to come to terms with it in the past few months. I have blogged about my issues several times on my blog ( http://www.bunnieblog.com ). Somehow it helps to write about it and get it out there and it has helped the people that love me deal with me better.
Talk therapy and correct meds are essential!
You are both helping countless people!
Thanks!
December 21st, 2007 at 1:04 am
Thank you for such an open and honest look at what you go through. That gives me a different perspective for sure. I’ve always wondered what my husband goes through, watching me deal with my anxiety and depression. But he’s not able to express himself in the way that he wants. This helps me to see the other side of it.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:08 am
So I read this and I wonder just how horrible life can be for Leta at times. I also read this and think WHY, WHY would you have another child? Rusty Yates comes to mind. He knew Andrea had manic depression, knew that she couldn’t handle things at times and yet he made more children with her. What happened to her and her children? Is Heather Andrea Yates, this I don’t know. I don’t know what it takes to break that straw and honestly I hope you don’t have to find out.
It’s one thing Jon to be with Heather alone, two adults. It’s another to willingly have another child and bring them into a mentally unstable environment knowing how Heather handles raising children.
I’m sure they’re are happy moments in your house and the Leta loves mommy. It’s all she knows. It has not failed to go unnoticed that Heather never says a bad thing about you on her blog, but has a lot to say about how trying, exhausting, disappointing and how Leta is the reason booze was invented. Leta from Heather’s words is not an affectionate child. I’m positive this had to do with being rejected when she was younger and having to witness Heather’s illness win in the attention dept.
You call yourself a father, would a father willingly subject his child to a mother who is not fully operational mentally–knowingly? So Heather has the baby craves because of Maggie…get a hamster.
Oh you’ll get pissed about this comment and brush me off, but will you actually take to heart that my words are valid? I have little faith that you will.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:39 am
Your post is enormously moving. I feel that my life was saved by talk-therapy and I finally found a man who had his life saved the same way. Do we all–all of us reading Jon’s posts and Heather’s excellent blog–realize that we are transforming our society for the better? It’s under the skin, but it’s real. Your post here Jon makes it clear how just how real. Thank you so much.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:46 am
Wow, thank you so much for such a candid post.
The best part was that I just got through a long conversation with my husband about how we each cope with things and how he needs to share with me when he is upset. Reading this just hammered it home, and I think I’ll ask him to read this as well.
It’s great that you frame it in the context that yours is not an unusual marriage, that these concepts apply to any marriage, and that everyone would be better off doing them. I think you’re so right. I also think you and Heather are so lucky to have such a wonderful relationship, and that Leta is so lucky to have such open and accepting parents that are willing to put the work into their relationships. Sincere congratulations to you on how far you’ve all come.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:55 am
I’m typing this through tears, Jon, so please excuse any typos…
I’m a “Heather,” and I have to say that ANYONE who not only lives with, but is able to so eloquently express what living with such a one means, is my hero.
Thank you SO MUCH.
P.S. My (all-but estranged) dad called me recently, telling me about his wife’s granddaughter who was hospitalized for severe depression (I’m the family expert on crazy, apparently); I e-mailed him the link to Heather’s most recent post, and he actually took a hint for a change and printed it out… and took it to her.
According to my dad, she read it, wept, and clutched it to her chest… and now makes sure no one removes it from her bedside table.
Do not underestimate the wonderful influence you and your lovely girl have. You should be proud.
December 21st, 2007 at 2:04 am
John you sound like an amazing man and partner. I hope years from now you will feel it was worth it and not look back on these years as a time you could have been with a woman who was there for you and could have been your life partner (as opposed to 2nd child and forgive me if it isn’t like that, it sounds like you play the roll of parent). I consider myself VERY devoted to my husband of 10 years but if he suddenly had issues of this nature I would likely scream at him to suck it up…shortly after I ran for the hills. I think you’re awesome and both Heather and Leta are very lucky!!
December 21st, 2007 at 3:04 am
Thank you. I too am a fix it person, and know that I need to listen and shut up but find that so incredibly hard. Reading your post has affirmed my instinct and will help me to use each situation to as you say, practice listening.
Thank you again!
December 21st, 2007 at 3:23 am
I think most men are “fix it” people. We get encouraged to do that from an early age when our fathers let us pick up a hammer or something and from them on we equate fixing with mending.
Listening is a key skill and not listening is probably the one thing that lost me my first marriage.
We have one mouth and two ears for a very good reason. Use your ears twice as much as you do your mouth.
December 21st, 2007 at 3:56 am
Can I ask what outlets you have for those times you need to let it all out and not be so careful or reserved? Does exercise help? My impression from Heather’s blog and yours is that you both have a lot of fun together, that you both have a great sense of humour. I’m guessing this helps a lot too.
December 21st, 2007 at 4:04 am
P.S. This is directed at “Patsy”. I’m not sure why you read either Heather or John, but every mother and father feels exasperation at times with their children and if you are unable to accept that fact and you can’t see the quirky humour in Heather and the intense unconditional love she has for her daughter you should just stop reading. Obviously you haven’t got two brain cells to rub together (another necessary component for those considering having children). Wow, the gall!
December 21st, 2007 at 4:09 am
Outstanding post.
December 21st, 2007 at 4:18 am
Thanks, Jon. This entry has meant a lot to many of us, especially men, who are in similar relationships.
December 21st, 2007 at 4:23 am
Amazing post, Jon, and I really want to encourage you to submit it to some magazines because I think there are many people who could benefit from your experience and perspective. Well said.
You and Heather are very lucky to have each other, that is very clear. And Leta is lucky to have you both.
December 21st, 2007 at 4:56 am
Thank you for sharing these very important words. My husband still struggles to respond appropriately to my depression and depression treatment, and your insight will be extremely helpful for us. I also have a better understanding a spouse’s point of view, as well, which will hopefully help me remember to support him too. Thanks again!
December 21st, 2007 at 6:04 am
Thank you so much for this. This is good and thought-provoking and important.
December 21st, 2007 at 6:15 am
(I’m “Molly Meow” to differentiate myself from the previous Molly, who I’m not)
OK, so I walked away from the computer and took a shower and thought, and I still feel the need to respond to Patsy, whether or not she ever reads it:
Well, of COURSE the reason Leta isn’t more affectionate is entirely due to Heather’s depression. Because it just doesn’t happen that kids develop their own personalities or happen to be wired a little funny. It MUST somehow be the mother’s fault. Just like autism and And it certainly never happens that parents with mental illnesses can successfully raise happy, healthy, well-adjusted children. Why, just think, if Leta grows up seeing her mother managing a mental illness, she might begin to believe that mental illnesses should lose their societal stigma, and we just can’t have that!
(removes tongue from cheek, hastens to assure everyone else that the preceding paragraph was sarcasm)
Patsy, I’m wondering how much experience you have in child development (whether parenting, teaching, or education) and how much of that has been with atypical children (not that I’m calling Leta atypical, but Heather’s written about how concerned they’ve been about her development in the past and how they’ve had her tested). I’m also wondering how you manage to not see with how much love Heather writes about Leta.
I’m also wondering if you’re seriously saying that people with chronic mental illness have no right to raise children and, if so, if you’d extend that to people with chronic physical illness.
The NIMH website says this: “An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year. When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people. Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness.”
That’s a lot of people who shouldn’t have children, if I read your comment correctly.
I have ADHD and depression. My spouse has PTSD. Please feel free to contact me at spearmintkitten at yahoo dot com and tell me why we shouldn’t have children. Please.
(P.S. The Andrea Yates comment was way below the belt…there’s a huge difference between depression and psychosis, which I suggest you educate yourself on before spouting any more opinions on mental illness to a forum full of people who live with such illnesses every day.)
December 21st, 2007 at 7:08 am
I think I’m going to get my husband to read this. I wonder what it is like for him sometimes. I think it is different than it is for you but perhaps there are things here he could relate to. Maybe that is a good thing to know: That this problem is different for everyone. Everyone must find their own path through it and their own strategies for coping. You and Heather handle it beautifully because you do it with love. I also have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Leta is leading a wonderful life with two incredibly self aware, thoughtful parents who adore her and each other. Would that every kid could be so lucky.
Every day I look at my husband and I know how loved I am. I hate to say it but the fact I’m such a mess leaves little doubt as to the strength of the bond between us. It sounds like you and Heather have forged that unbreakable tie as well.
December 21st, 2007 at 7:17 am
Jon, thank you! I’ve never known what it’s like on the other side and your post has helped a lot. I suffer from PTSD and it’s not pretty at times. I just hope some day I can find a man willing to love me enough to understand my illness and to work thru the hard times.
December 21st, 2007 at 7:58 am
An amazing piece Jon, written from the heart and with great clarity - I hope it will help others, I really do. I’m printing it out for my mother, who teaches children with depression and other mental health problems, and my sister who suffers from depression and has struggled this year.
You are a good man, and it’s always a pleasure to read about your life and family - keep up the good work in 2008, and have a lovely, happy Christmas.
Thank you xx
December 21st, 2007 at 8:00 am
You and Heather are my heroes! You two are so open, honest and helpful to all of those folks who might be going through something similar and have nowhere to turn.
One of my very best friends’ husband was diagnosed with bipolar this year. It’s been a tough year for both of them. It has taken a huge toll on her. She never knows what she is going to get with him day to day and it really wears on her. AND, they have a wonderful little boy in the middle of all of this. I worry about them. I’ve sent your post to her. Hopefully hearing how you deal with Heather’s illness will help her to deal with her husband’s.
Thank you (and Heather)for your honesty and bravery
December 21st, 2007 at 8:06 am
very well done, sir.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:16 am
If more people were honest and communicated about difficult things in life everyone would be better off. Thank you for being honest and providing such insight on a topic that is rarely discussed much less written about.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:32 am
This is so helpful and very brave. Thank you.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:32 am
Thank you. I’ve been here a while — “here” meaning “a devoted reader” as well as “locked in a depressive cycle that has devastating effects on my spouse.” Maybe the meds aren’t working as well as I’d thought.
For your candor, your wit, and your courage, you and Heather are in my heart. All my best to your family during this joyous and difficult season…and Happy Election Year!
December 21st, 2007 at 8:36 am
Thank you.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:38 am
Great post, Jon.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:38 am
your strength is admirable. thank you for such an open and honest conversation. it’s invaluable to see both sides.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:00 am
Thanks Jon. I am teared up, and I don’t know why. My depression is a constant variable in my marriage, but I realized that once I stopped hating it and its effects on us, and accepted it for what what it is, that I can put it in its own place. Yes its there, but it is not a controlling factor anymore. There are days when I have to look at my husband and say, I can’t handle it today. He’s very good at understanding that and I am grateful for him.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:06 am
Beautiful.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:08 am
Jon, thank you.
It is so important for women to know what men think, and for people with depression to know what it’s like for others, and that you opened up like this… Heather keeps saying what a wonderful man you are, and if her words over the years weren’t enough, this would be more than enough…
I’ll be saving this post, and showing it to whoever comes along in my own life.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:34 am
Thank you. This was an amazing read.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:45 am
Thank you, Jon. When I read Heather’s post I was once again grateful for her vulnerable voice about depression. Today I am so thankful that you chimed in. As a therapist who gets her own talk therapy as well, I am so glad that you talked about the insanity of “fixing.” And I appreciate your willingness to