The Silence is Saying So Much More
February 16th, 2008Salt Lake Tribune - Buttars is lying low in aftermath
Governor still silent. GOP seems fine with a racist in the Utah Senate. Mormons as individuals speaking up, Mormon church is silent. They are hoping this will go away. o
Tags: GOP racism, mormon racism, racism, utah racism
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February 16th, 2008 at 9:13 am
And the damn thing is- it probably will.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:44 am
I love the politics in this state. Always so entertaining.
February 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Jon, I don’t see this as a particularly racist remark. It seems an unfortunate choice of words.
.
February 16th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Here in the UK in the 1980’s we had a race-relations ‘industry’. Some of the most fundamental ‘anti-racists’ tried to stop people saying “black-board” (we had to call it a chalk-board); you couldn’t ask for a “black coffee” (it had to be coffee-without-milk). They even tried to change the words of the old nursery rhyme “Baa, baa, black sheep” to “Baa, baa, GREEN sheep”!!!! It was about then we said, “Hang on! This is ridiculous!” And called a halt. Some of us even suspected it was all a ploy to bring REAL anti-racist organisations into disrepute.
Just sayin’
February 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Hmm. I think this is one of those things that did just come out, and I also think that it reveals a lot. Sort of like when someone says, “That’s gay”, when what they really mean is, “that’s lame”. To say that something/someone is gay is not inheirently homophobic, but context rules in stuff like this. And, I’m sorry, there’s no “potential” racism about saying that black =ugly, or referring to something negatively by using the phrase “black baby”. That’s hate speech, and it’s only a step away from being inflammatory hate speech. And, no offense to any LDS, but it’s not like the church has a stellar history on stuff like this, and in the minds of most everybody, Utah=LDS. This is the sort of incident that makes the rest of America roll her eyes at the racist Mormons. Come on, Utah citizens, recall this joker. Give racism the boot. NO MAS!
February 16th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
In a state that is forcing me to go to the liquor store to buy a Mike’s Hard Lemonade, nothing surprises me. NOTHING. There’s a lot of tolerance for intolerance here.
February 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Jon, I don’t see this as a particularly racist remark. It seems an unfortunate choice of words.
This right here explains how people like Buttars not only get elected but stay in office. In Buttars’ early career there were plenty of racists around to support him. Now he relies on “otherwise well meaning” people who will give him the benefit of the doubt (completely ignoring his personal history).
I’m going to take a big leap here and assume the folks who are sympathetic with Buttars are white AND uneducated about black history.
In my wildest nightmares I would not string the words Buttars uttered. I can’t imagine saying them. I don’t know what I detest more, blatant assholes like Buttars or people who turn a blind eye to despicable behaviour.
February 16th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
I would say just the fact that he apologized says a lot about what he said. This is a man who has said many intolerant things and refused to apologize, and now he even knows this was WAY over the line.
February 16th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Woooord, Leta. You make stellar points.
I’d like to add this for Lesley: It may seem an “unfortunate choice of words” to you; however, I cannot fathom your interpretation given that something one (in this case, Buttars) despises is being equated with “a black baby.” This is not even getting into a discussion of that black baby being a “very dark” and ugly one. Apparently, Mr. Buttars is a fan of the “brown paper bag test.”
Anyway, if you’re a black girl, who was once a black baby, who will grow to be a black teen and someday a black woman, and you hear yourself being used as a metaphor for something bad, there is a certain amount of pain inflicted. I just don’t see how this isn’t racism and it baffles me that Mr. Buttars isn’t being censured or held to account by the Utah State Senate, Gov. Huntsman and the Mormon Church.
February 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
In my wildest nightmares I would not string the words Buttars uttered. I can’t imagine saying them.
*******
This, exactly. And thanks, aaryn b.
February 16th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
To be fair, any comments calling for the Mormon Church to voice a position seems a bit disingenuous. The LDS Church on has a long standing policy to remain detached from politics (although one could challenge how adamant they abide this policy). The LDS church has rarely chimed in on issues of this nature. An issue usually has to affect them directly to warrant a public response. Even when the LDS church is directly offended (i.e. Al Sharpton), a public response is measured and polite.
It seems unreasonable to call for a response from an unaffiliated organization, to act in a way that they rarely do, over an issue that does not directly concern them. In fact it even begins to lean towards religious intolerance. Something the Mormons seem to get a fair amount of, usually from the hands of open-minded folks. Was there a call for all religions to act the same in this matter? Just to be fair.
February 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Holy crap. I just looked this dude up on Wikipedia, and he said that he thought the Brown vs. Board of Education decision was wrong! OMG! What century is this? Are people seriously going to re-argue the notion that “separate but equal” has a chance in hell of being, in fact, equal? Egad.
February 16th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Derek, I’m not a Mormon, and I don’t know anybody who is. But honestly, like I said above, Utah and Mormon go together like ramma-lamma-lamma and ka-ding-de-de-ding-de-dong. I can think of no other US state where one Christian sect and the state government are so represented by one another. It makes Mormons look bad when Utah looks bad, and vice versa. So you’d think the church would care, since they seem to do a good bit of PR.
This is not, in any way, to excuse the historical racism of other Christian sects. (Honorable mention institutional racist shoutouts to all the Baptist, Presbytarian, Methodist, etc. churches who promoted racism as Biblical into the 20th century.) If this were a Southern Baptist repesentative in South Carolina, I’d be just a revolted, and I’d point out that he was making Southern Baptists and South Carolinians look bad. ‘Cause he would be.
February 16th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
aaryn, did you even read what I wrote? The italicized statement at the top of my post is a quote from another commenter (brat). I thought the italics made that clear. But even if you didn’t get that part, my comments clearly show I am against people who support Buttars. I’m guessing you didn’t bother reading my comment at all since that’s very obvious.
Interesting that you applaud Leta who is sympathetic to Buttars and believes he didn’t mean it. Maybe you got our names mixed up?
February 16th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
yeah, those ARE MY WORDS. too bad aaryn completely ignored them.
February 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Lesley: I actually did read your comment and thought it was fantastic. But somehow when writing my own, I accidentally put your name where I should have put brat’s. I apologize for the error. And for offending you. It was an honest mistake.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
It’s certainly grabbed the attention of people all across the country.
Pandagon dug up some of Chris Buttar’s stellar legislation: Let’s hide evidence of police misconduct! http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/02/16/utahs-chris-buttars-sponsors-bill-to-hide-police-misconduct/
BTW, to the person who said the LDS church has a policy of not getting involved with politics–um, so NOT the case. Otherwise we wouldn’t have wards organising to get women to protest during the ERA rounds. We wouldn’t have had the Temple Square easement debacle either. And for some reason, it took the LDS church a whole extra decade after the civil rights movement to get blacks the priesthood–you’d kinda think they’d be ahead of the curve on human rights.
(One can even make a case for the LDS scriptures even enforcing racist attitudes. After all, the Nephites were all so “white and delightsome”, until a few edits back.)
Anyway, racism isn’t just a matter of politics. It’s indecent behaviour and you don’t need to be involved with politics to see that. I think the LDS church, as one of the main forces in Utah, has a responsibility to teach that decent human behaviour excludes racism and bigotry.
February 17th, 2008 at 3:09 am
All religions have political policies and influence. I still can’t believe anyone can reasonably follow Mormonism given the fact it was founded by a convicted snake oil salesman.
The fundamentalist Mormon church has a policy called “bleeding the beast” which involves defrauding the state of as much welfare money as possible to fund polygamous households. A fundie Morman man will legally marry one woman and illegally wed (in Mormon ceremonies) countless others and set them up in “monster houses” that become breeding farms for the Mormon Church. These women claim welfare benefits as single mothers (partly because their ‘husbands’ can’t afford to support them, but mostly because it’s the policy of the Church to deplete resources from what they consider the enemy - all those who are not Mormon. The purpose of polygamy is to increase the Mormon population as quickly as possible with the goal of making it dominant.
All fundamentalists pervert and exploit scripture to further a political end.
The Catholic Church has a long history of political influence and corruption.
I can never get why anyone thinks a religion or a Church isn’t politically connected. All you have to do is read the history of Mormonism or Catholicism to know what it’s really about: control.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Hopefully Buttars will be “spending more time with his family” in the near future.
What a fool. But think of all the other fools who kept re-electing him and don’t see what all the uproar is about.
February 17th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Leslie,
Of course all religions have influence- although religions are routinely chided for trying to exercise any influence on society. But becoming entangled in every spat that comes down the political pike is not the place of any religion. That is a slippery slope. Mormonism, like most religions, try to teach it members acceptance of all people and to show kindness and charity, that is their mode of influence, to inspire people to a higher standard, not muckraking with politicians. And yes, of course churches do participate in public policies when it relates to doctrine.
And on another note, your comments regarding the “fundamentalist Mormons” (which are quite separate than most Mormons- this is similar to saying the Westboro Baptist in Kansas who routinely protest at funerals over homosexuality are mainstream Baptists) are mean spirited at best. I do not defend or respond to any of your comments regarding them. Although I will comment on your harsh and provocative reference to Joseph Smith as a snake-oil salesman. Regardless of your thoughts on the subject, I ask that you exercise some restraint on attacking beliefs, dismissing people as unreasonable because of those beliefs, and practice some tolerance for people that have chosen an avenue that they feel makes them better people.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I appreciate your comments about fundies vs moderates. I made the distinction in my comment above. Mormonism may be mostly moderate now, but the origins of the Church are fundamentalist and its founder was a fraud artist. Joseph Smith was arrested and found guilty in 1826 in New York for being a con-artist and an impostor (practicing necromancy) four years before he published the Book of Mormon and became a cult figure.
Jon Krakauer’s book, Under the Banner of Heaven, relates the history of Mormonism and Joseph Smith.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
As someone who regularly does live broadcast interviews, I’m always shocked by the inability of supposed professionals - politicians, journalists, whatever - to censor themselves on-the-fly. When I’m in broadcast mode, every word is measured and metered before it goes out. Even though I’m always looking to score the pithy quote, I can’t ever imagine myself crossing a racist or profane line. It’s like calling your mother something really bad…it’s just never done.
Often, lapses like this are telling. The person who falters may apologize immediately and call the experience uncharacteristic of his/her usual behavior. But there’s always more beneath the surface if we choose to scratch a little.
I’m glad this moron doesn’t represent me. But I’m under no illusion that any democratically elected government anywhere is immune to this kind of thing. We clearly deserve better leaders, but we seem to be let down at every turn.
February 18th, 2008 at 8:16 am
ACK! Lesley, I hope you got me confused with someone else, because I am not, in any way, sympathetic to Buttars, and I don’t really understand how anything I wrote here gave you the impression that I am anything other than grossed out by this guy. I’m with you. I think that it’s appaling that he would ever even think that “black baby” = evil/ugly, and the fact that he said this in public is just… amazing in a disgusting sort of way. Like an oil drum full of maggots.
And Carmi, ITA that there usually is more beneath the surface, regardless of how vehement the apologies may be.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Sorry Leta, I think it was this remark
which others are also using to excuse him. i.e. he didn’t really mean it that way.
February 18th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Lesley,
Ok, I get it- you don’t like Mormons. Why so vehemently? I wonder. Whatever your reasons are fine with me. But your justification of how you made the “distinction” between the “fundies vs moderates” is rather weak and academically tenuous. You level a claim at all Mormons by stating “I still can’t believe anyone can reasonably follow Mormonism given the fact it was founded by a convicted snake oil salesman” and then stretch to introduce the topic of the fundamentalists with a borderline hateful diatribe. Was the point of introducing Mormon fundamentalists to talk about religious/political influence or merely use it to slander “moderates” with the statements. My guess is the latter, otherwise there seems to be no reason why you would lump all Mormons together in the opening paragraph. It seems that you were more interested in stating your opinion about Mormons rather than your opinion on religion and politics- which was the original topic.
Regarding the earlier comment on “I can never get why anyone thinks a religion or a Church isn’t politically connected”. It is interesting that when church is involved in politics and public policy it is chided and the public howls, when it tries to separate itself from politics it is chided still. Would you like separation or not? Lets just call it like it is- religious critics are not interested in being fair with religion, or willing to accept that some people just want to have a belief system that doesn’t align with theirs. Religion will be criticized no matter the action or issue. If religious critics are actually as enlightened as they tout themselves to be, then it should be practiced. Allow diversity for everyone, not just those that fit within the narrow margins. Do not dismiss religious people as unreasonable, but rather just accept all people are different. If you are more enlightened than religious folks, just throw us a bone and let us fools go about our business. Otherwise, climb down from the high horse.
I am as middle of the road as it comes politically and socially. I have just as many non-religious friends as religious. I tire of the hypocrisy of liberals looking down their noses and taking pot shots at religion while at the same time boasting about how accepting and open-minded they are. I feel that you have been unfair and critical from the start. Granted, religions are not without fault- and grievances can be claimed on all sides. But please bring it a notch.
That being said, perhaps we can talk about what you believe in for a bit.