Stress, Depression & Me
February 29th, 2008Since coming out yesterday as being on Prozac, I thought it might be good to answer a few questions that were in the comments. Before I go there, I’d like to thank you all for your support and encouragement. I’m not sure I’d be doing as well without this site and without amazing readers. Thanks so much, it means the world to me.
Another thing you should know is that I’m seeing a therapist again and it’s going well. Talk therapy is really a good part of getting better.
I’d like to mention that yesterdays post is supposed to be funny. As such, there are a lot of other things going on that I’m not going to write about publicly. It is those non-public things that are larger contributors to my state. And specifically, my response to those non-public things.
Questions:
The first was along the lines of: “So you have stress. Big deal. Everybody has stress. You are saying that stress lead to depression? Give me a break.”
I’ve done a ton of reading over the years about this both for myself and to help me understand the best I can what Heather goes through.
I’d suggest the Mayo Clinic as a great place to start:
Chronic stress: Can it cause depression? - MayoClinic.com
There are a ton of links off that page to all kinds of self assessment pages.
I’d also suggest this page, which I found through a search awhile ago:
Do You Love Someone Who Suffers From Depression?
You may not agree with everything that is said, but the part that most resonated with me:
“Sometimes the spouse of a depressed partner becomes depressed as a result of living within a “depressed lifestyle” for too long. Depression is said to be contagious and can become a shroud over the spouse or family. It’s also vital to consider that depression may not only be genetic, but it can also be taught. You heard me right. For instance, our children’s most powerful classroom is the home. Both “Nature and Nurture” contribute to depression.”
The second most common thread seemed to be a kind of “how do you get from stresses of living to depression?”
As I said above, it is in my response to situations. The other thing that I think is going on is that the continued level of stress is high and I’ve been unable to fully relax and destress. There is interesting research around stress and serotonin.
Behavior: The Neurobiology of Depression (Look down the page a bit for the subheading “Stress and Serotonin”.)
Of note:
We are not saying that stress “causes” depression in people. Rather, stress is very likely interacting with an inborn genetic predisposition, such that, in some vulnerable individuals, a stressor can precipitate a mood disorder (i.e., vulnerability + stress = depression).
“This suggests that a chronic or severe stress (e.g., loss of a spouse, serious illness or injury, history of abuse) may cause similar neurochemical changes in vulnerable people, therefore triggering episodes of depression.”
Which leads to my final response around the question that stress is causing a physical manifestation of illness, i.e., “mystery illnesses”. I believe this is the case. I believe that I’ve had this happen in the past, where I’ve been down for more than a few days and it always is due to major stresses and changes in my life. It has gotten much worse as I’ve gotten older and the stakes have gotten higher. I believe that in the summer of 2006, the lawsuit and the cost for us financially caused my two week mystery illness.
I’m doing this to help myself. If this seems maudlin or overwrought, please forgive.
If you have other questions, please feel free to ask in the comments. I’ll probably do posts answering the most common threads. o
Tags: depression, stress
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February 29th, 2008 at 10:54 am
blurb,
you & dooce are amazing people. it takes great strength to keep going with everything that you both have been through over the past few years. it takes even greater strength to recognize AND ask for help when you need it.
it’s important that you both realize (and are told) that you make a great difference in the lives of a lot of people, by writing what you both write. so remember that you resonate at a very deep level with other people - because that helps; it means that there are others who care and are going through the same things (stress-wise) and reading about your abilities and choices to cope with the difficulties of living can make the difference between life or death for other people. i know dooce mentioned that in a previous post and said it blew her mind. you guys make a difference.
that counts for a lot.
sending lots of good vibes, hugs (if you need them) and hope from canada -
sak
February 29th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Fuck what everybody else thinks, you have to take care of yourself. Big props for going to therapy–I’ve been recently converted. Also, you might already know this, but I thought it was worth mentioning—stress raises your cortisol levels and depresses your immune system. Interesting article from the British Journal of Psychiatry. Cortisol, serotonin and depression: all stressed out?
Good luck.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Bravo to you, Jon, for getting the help you need. And anyone who doesn’t think that stress can cause numerous health issues (depression as well as physical problems) needs to have his/her head examined. Stress can be a killer. Good luck to you on your road to better health.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:12 am
You need to do whatever works for you to help yourself. I would hope that any critics would realize that they don’t have the whole story and that you are the best judge of what you need. But alas, history has shown that many will take the tiny amount of info they have and pass judgment on your actions.
I also believe that stress and unhappiness can make you physically ill. Absolutely and without a doubt.
Good luck & best wishes.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Interesting to read the link regarding depression/stress being taught, and how living with someone that is depressed can cause depression itself.
Since I”ve been on the meds, I’ve lost my creative interests. No music, no art… I’ve wanted to and tried going off the meds because of that, and the fog, but found that OFF meds I’m awake and angry.
I have kids. I went on the meds for them, because of the fear in their faces. They are getting older, but they are not out of the house,yet.
I decided I will stay medicated until they are on their own. They don’t need to learn how to be depressed.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:19 am
*applause*
You both handle, and write about, this stuff amazingly as far as I’m concerned. And the presentation from yesterday did make me giggle.
Seriously, though, keep it up. All of it. The meds, the talk therapy, the research, the writing. You’re helping other people as well as yourself.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:20 am
you’ve certainly taken an educated look at this. congrats to you on finding out what you need to do and kudos for doing it with talk therapy. i think drugs are easily obtainable but combining with talk therapy is where you’ll get to the heart of it all. that’s been my experience too.
i really appreciated your blog post about being in a relationship with a depressive. thanks! karla
February 29th, 2008 at 11:23 am
I don’t know whether you’ve considered SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), but if you will insist on living somewhere that gets a lot of winter I can certainly recommend light box treatment.
I don’t believe I suffer from clinically-labelled SAD or depression, but do get the winter blues, unlike family members who do get full-blown SAD and post-partum depression.
Even my recent diagnosis of MS hasn’t managed to dull my mood this year since I started using a light-box in the morning every day. I started using one a couple of years ago, when I saw how effective it’s been for aforementioned family member. I can recommend it as a non-pharmaceutical assistance to take the edge of the knackered serotonin levels that short winter days brings, and its use has raised my general mood over the last couple of years to the level where even stressful periods like my diagnosis have a much reduced effect.
Perhaps something to consider?
February 29th, 2008 at 11:28 am
You’re doing a great service by sharing this with all of us readers.
I’ve come to realize that there is no such thing as “normal” and we all have to do what works for us to cope with the life we’re dealt.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:38 am
I got a kick out of your presentation the other day, and I figured that you and Heather would both enjoy this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo7Sng5Jeb0&NR=1
February 29th, 2008 at 11:45 am
I can’t thank you and your wife enough for putting this information out there and being a voice for those that suffer from depression. I’ve suffered from depression and mood disorder for a very long time and it’s difficult to explain to people who just don’t get it. It’s also horrible to deal with the stigma associated with it. I’m glad that you are getting the help you need to feel better. I wish you and your family only the best!
February 29th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Does it help you? do you have side effects? do you regret starting? do you feel ashamed? are you afraid you might need more, a bigger dosis? Are you afraid of the idea you might have to take it al your life? i’ve got so many questions..
x
Anne
February 29th, 2008 at 11:50 am
You are very brave to stand up on the Internet and talk about your struggles with stress and depression. Trust me, anyone who gives you shit for not “pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and getting on with life” is having a very unhappy life themselves and want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. Don’t let the bullies get to you. You are the one who has to live your life and you are the one who gets to decide the best way to do it.
Stress can not only bring on disease and depression, it can actually kill you. So dealing with your stress is a life-saving measure. Good for you that you are working to improve your, Leta’s, and Heather’s lives. Live healthy, be happy.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Jon - I’m in total awe of your ability to be honest about this. There’s way too much stigma around mental health issues. Which leads to silly comments along the lines of: try harder, and even people in denial about their current mental health “I’m not depressed” line. Yeh, whatever.
Those very same people would not suggest someone ran around a broken leg, put a bit more effort into running … and it will sort itself out! Respect is given for physical illness, and your mental health is as much as part of your body as the rest of you. There’s a wider society stigma about admitting to it too … e.g. rarely feels they have to come out over [insert physical illness of their choice here].
Yesterday’s post, personally I thought it was fab and totally creative! More please.
And yes, everyone goes through that negotiation of boundaries and what they’ll say in public. However, even what you’ve said online has made me think … burning candle at both ends there, and I don’t even know you.
Anyhow, good luck to you … and please keep writing. It may help, and don’t forget you’ve got a load to give other people … not to mention your own family.
P.S. Coco drains me out, just by reading about her!
February 29th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
It seems perfectly natural to me that you would take a medication to help you when you need it. When I have a headache, I take Excedrin. Oh, heavens! I took a pharmaceutical to help me, even though I could probably predict that the headache would eventually go away on its own: it helped me function better during the headache.
I am not a situational taker of anti-depressants. I will be on them for the rest of my life. Anti-depressants are my insulin. Without them, I am anxious, jittery, scattered, and cannot relax, sit still, or enjoy my life the way I can when I take them. I am not sure why, in 2008, there is still a stigma attached to taking them.
Jon, from what I read yesterday, and also from what I know from being a longterm reader of both your website and Heather’s, I think you hit it right on the head: Your stress levels have been sustained, very high, and have all occurred in a very short span of time (namely, the past four years). You have endured more stressors in that time than most of us encounter in a lifetime. I think there is a vast difference between “Life is hard, so why can’t you deal with it without prozac?” and “There are significant and sustained huge stressors that take their toll, and prozac can help you until some of that passes.”
Even if you can get through “life is hard” without Prozac, why would you, when it’s there to help?
February 29th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
thanks for those links, i really enjoy reading the real research about psychological phenomenon. i hope you start feeling better very soon, or that the feeling better sticks if you’re already there.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I’m glad you’re getting help. You don’t need anyone to tell you how important that is.
Should we be sad that George is on the stress graph? I’m a crazy Internet person who worries about random people I don’t know. I worry about him. I worry about you, too, of course. Am I taking the George bar too seriously?
February 29th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Good for you for seeking help. I trust this is what is needed for you and I do hope you continue with the talk therapy.
I just went the other direction, choosing to not take a medication, but meds are there to help when we need them. I am surprised that folks won’t quaf at someone who needs Synthroid for a thyroid problem, but will lambaste (sp) a person who needs prozac to decrease depression levels.
I personally have my own choices about meds. They are mine from my own history, but I would never expect others to make the same choices I would…so I hope you well and a decrease in the stress.
With that said, keep doing talk therapy. I work with very under priviledged folks who will never see the light of talk therapy but will be dosed medication. Meds are only a patch, and without therapy it only comes back. Just the way it goes, moe. Sh!t, if it is a simple as just the meds, I’d have stuck with pot….cheap and you can share.
And that is it…I am done writing the 2 cents.
Take care of yourself.
~GoGo
February 29th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
We LOVE you Blurbomat!!! Do what you need to in order to take care of yourself (and your family). I would say the biggest critics are those that could stand a little (or a lot) of Prozac themselves!!!!! Take care!!!
Vicki
February 29th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Excellent response. Thanks so much for speaking for so many of us.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Jon,
Thank you so much for sharing what you have been through and your decision to seek help. I was diagnosed with postpartum depression two months ago, five months after my daughter was born. I was able to see a psychiatrist that specializes in postpartum depression, and he has found a link between that and bipolar. When he asked how I felt about taking medication, I had mixed feedings. If you would have asked me six months ago, the answer would have been no. After dealing with the severe mood swings, and the fits of crying, I was open to suggestions. Reading what you have been through and the courage you have shown to not only take medication, but to share it with the world, I feel like I too can take that same step. Thank you for allowing me to do what is best for not only me, but my husband and daughter.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Hey, Jon. I suffer from depression and chronic anxiety disorder. My husband is a psychologist, and even he’s having a difficult time dealing with me and it all. Don’t feel the need to explain yourself to your readers. You’re a great husband and father, anyone can see that. We all do what we can to get by.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
I also found the Dave Turro-Sheilds article interesting and personally, very true. The arms of depression are long and often sweeps in anyone nearest to it. It is a struggle to continue to see life through your own (hopefully, emotionally healthy) eyes when your partner or loved one’s view of the world is clouded. Taking care of oneself and seeking the support of friends and family is so important…individual therapy has helped me develop better coping mechanisms in my relationship with my husband who suffers from severe depression.
I’ve enjoyed your website and will continue to check-in.
Best wishes,
MTD
February 29th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Jon,
This is the best book ever written on stress and depression and will change you life (in a good way, not in a OMG a giant giant carnivorous rabbit is trying to eat me kinda way).
Undoing Perpetual Stress: The Missing Connection Between Depression, Anxiety and 21st Century Illness
http://www.amazon.com/Undoing-Perpetual-Stress-Connection-Depression/dp/042519826X
February 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
If it is any consolation , I did laugh at some parts of the “presentation”.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Good on you for taking care of yourself. The only person who really knows how you feel is you - so only you are in the absolute best position to determine what helps you feel better!
You seem like a wonderful person who has been very responsible throughout a lot of difficulties. That takes its toll.
As for stress - I think it always finds a way out, no matter how much we try to suppress it and just get on with things. It waits patiently, but it always gets you in the end. I should know - I end up growing scales in times of extreme stress. Not a good look.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Jon,
I also have had an on again off again affair with depression. I’ve got an interesting perspective being affected by it and also being a Dr (a chiropractor-make any comments felt necessary I’ve got thick skin)that treats patients on a daily basis. First and foremost is find what helps you best,if its a pill go for it. You seem like a very inetlligent well read person so I encourage you to try many things especially those outside the “traditional establishment”. What i’ve learned as a clinician is that every persons presentation is different and symptoms and chasing them leads you in the wrong direction….Find the root and you can help learn to manage things so the symptoms come less often. For me its a lot of things. Eating well (lots of veggies-look up anti inflammatory diet),cut out sugar,exercise, meditate (find alone time for you only),laugh and cry when you feel the need, get sun, and remember you and all people are flawed. Where I went to college had a philosophy “a well rounded person is sound in SPIRIT,MIND and BODY” find a way to incorporate that in your life with all the demands you’ve chosen to put on yourself. And oh yeah smile there are already too many grumpy people. Please feel free to contact me if necessary.
John
February 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Yep to comment # 9. No truer words than “I’ve come to realize that there is no such thing as “normal” and we all have to do what works for us to cope with the life we’re dealt.” have been written. Take care of you and your family. No one in this world knows how to do that better than YOU.
Thanks for being who you are and sharing with your readers the way you do.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Good on ya, Jon. Be well.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Jon–
Again, I think you totally rock. Having intimate knowledge of depression and living with a depressed partner, I know what’s up. Take care of yourself–you must.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
i would love if you could explain how therapy is going well. I just started it and it is just so painful. I think my last session was the best and I cried the whole hour home and just felt suicidal until I went out on a date…so it kinda really sucks that that is a good session.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
great informative links, thanks!
i think you’re right on the right path
good luck!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
You inspire me.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
We do what works. We do what we know how to do. Now.
Perhaps it’s medicine. Perhaps it’s exercise. Perhaps it’s prayer. Perhaps it’s burying our head in someone’s lap and crying for hours.
I don’t get people who judge and condemn others for doing what they need to do to get by. Life is hard. What looks like nothing from the observer can be an unbearable hell to the person going through it. The exact opposite it true, too.
Anyone who can’t simply say, “Good for you, do what you need to do,” is simply frightened by their own stuff. And watching someone confront their shit, when you’re hiding from yours is threatening. Perhaps some will become unthreatened and welcome the opportunity to look more critically at their own reflections.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Jon,
I think being aware of yourself and the things that you are experiencing in your life (emotionally and physically) is a very difficult and incredibly powerful tool. It strikes me that you have both the awareness *and* the desire to make positive changes in your life.
I admire you openness and candid approach to life.
Pat yourself on the back for having the courage to face your own personal demons. I wish you the best in embracing them, and the strength to continue putting one foot in front of the other.
“The journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step.”
Be well.
Lisa
February 29th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I’m so happy for you that you’re taking care of yourself. I just have one question, that may have already been asked but I haven’t read every comment - has the medicine helped?
I’ve actually been in counseling for a few months, and medication has been suggested but I pushed back, mostly because I was afraid that either a) it wouldn’t help, or b) the side effects would not be worth any benefit. So I just wondered, if you’re willing to share, if the medicine has helped you.
Thanks for sharing things like this, I know it’s personal and hard, but it helps others who may be in similar situations to see good things can happen
February 29th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I just wanted to be clear - I don’t think anyone really harshly judged Jon for admitting he was going on Prozac. I think most people just wondered why stress = depression. Because while Blurb and Dooce have done a lot for those people that ARE depressed and CAN Relate, they do have readers that CANT and are CURIOUS - Not Judgemental.
Reading both Heather and Jon - they wouldn’t have posted it if they didnt’ 1) realize it was going to cause some debate and 2) they didnt want to talk about it.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Jon - Thanks so much for sharing. It is all such an interesting topic to me. I haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s comments, so I’m not sure if someone already touched on this…
I’m not by any means anti-drug. I understand they help people and change lives dramatically (for the better!) But I’ve always wondered about their long term affect on our society. What I mean is, with the increase in drug-focused “fixes” to things like depression, are we losing our ability to cope? What did people do “pre-Prozac”? Were we, as a people, more miserable? Higher suicide rates? Or did we have a stronger coping response? I have read Heather’s posts about the same topic, and understand completely that drugs help. I’m just really truly interested in your opinion on those questions.
Thanks again for opening up, it has really created an interesting topic for discussion.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Your candor is reasonable, not overboard with the melodrama. Your modesty and sense of humor balance so well, both of you. Thank you for the research links, and know that, as much as this is a part of your healing, your and Heather’s writing is a part of mine.
Carry on!
February 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
stress affects mood. its obvious to any of us with mood disorders. great posting.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Great post. Thanks for the poop on depression etc. And again if you can’t laugh at yourself about all of this, you would even more stressed and even more depressed. I think your post yesterday, creatively spoke volumes to many of us. Making us laugh, think, question and commiserate because I believe the people who read your blog genuinely care about what youihave to say and how you see your world (a good reason for some of us to goof off at work!).
A lot of people think that men don’t get depressed. I think that may makes it even harder for men to come out from under the big blanket of misconception.
Some days are good……some other not so good. We all have our blessings…..it’s very clear you and Heather are committed to your growing relationship and family. That’s damn good stuff!
It’s nice not to be alone…….
February 29th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
No questions from me about this; it’s personal and your sharing is good, to whatever extent you choose to share.
I did want to ask you to elaborate (in a future post) on something you mentioned earlier. You said that you got very stressed out before vacation and were a bit unlikeable, and that your dad did the same thing before family vacations when you were a kid. My family was the same way, and I struggle with it myself. It helps me in my relationship with my Dad now, because I can relate to the self-loathing that follows those little outbursts. Thankfully, I’m a woman so it’s easier for me to say “I’m sorry, I hate it when I do that” and move on, and I’m married to a man who makes it easier on me and has heard my self-analysis enough to know what’s going on, whereas my mother inadvertently made the situation worse. Self-awareness usually eventually makes the problem better because it’s less and less frequent…but living with self-aware people can be a trial….
A tangent from your post, I suppose…the connection is in the stress-focus.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Jon,
Don’t let any of these guys get you down. It’s obvious by reading the comments that you have a ton of support from people you don’t even know, but unfortunately anonymity can bring out the worst in some people.
Focus on the positive folks and ignore the negative folks. That in itself should help brighten up your mood, which in turn might be a small step in making your happier and healthier.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Good for you. Do what you need to do, and never feel the need to justify that to the internet. Thank you for your continuous openness about this subject. It’s unfortunate that people still don’t understand depression, or the effects it can have on all those around you.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
The stigma attached to depression is getting old. Can you imagine a world where people thought if you had cancer you should just be able to “get over it”? It’s absurd! Depression just plain sucks and can bury you. For me, taking that little pill everyday is what helps me to lead a quality life and to be able to be there 100% for my husband and daughter. (I think I could probably use a little therapy on the side too.) Kudos to you for taking care of yourself! You will be amazed at how much better you will start feeling. Life will begin to take on new meaning.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Stress can have an awful physical manifestation. I dealt with that for years until I finally figured it out. Good for you for taking the steps to get better.
And I totally got that humor in the presentation.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Your having the courage to discuss it so honestly and openly quite likely saved someone’s life today. Imagine a world where this didn’t get swept under the rug. Thanks to you, maybe that world doesn’t have to be imaginary after all.
Thank you seems so inadequate.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I went on a date recently with a guy… I’m very vocal about the fact that I’m on Paxil, in fact, I rave about it to anyone who’ll listen. I finally found a drug that works for me, and I feel like myself for the first time, like, ever.
So this guy that I’m on the date with says “Oh, I don’t believe in antidepressants. I tried them once when I was 14 [15 years ago!!!] and they didn’t work for me and blah blah blah suck it up I’m way above all that.”
I did not hit him in the face. I should have hit him in the face.
I wasn’t suicidal (recently) before I started taking antidepressants, but I can still say that Paxil has saved my life. No, better, it’s GIVEN me my life. I have a life now, whereas before, I was just getting by.
So fuck the naysayers. They’re assholes.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
There is nothing maudlin or overwrought about your post, and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong and maybe evil. Do whatever you need to do and I wish you well.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Because I started with today’s post, I knew that the presentation was meant to be funny. It was and I laughed….but it’s laughter through tears. Any talk of depression hits too close to home, I guess.
Sak says it all. Please know that so many of your readers are die hard fans of you and Heather and your family. We love your successes and share the pain of your struggles.
You are a success story.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I really admire your courage in talking about it publicly. You remind me of Heather, in the best way.
Taking your own stress levels, happiness and life in your hands and having some measure of control over what you can do to help yourself is bound to be a good thing. I think it takes someone very strong indeed to admit when they need help, and to be willing to get it.
I know I’m just an internet stranger, but I read you and Heather’s websites often, and my heart goes out to you nonetheless. Hugs to you and your family.
Also… your presentation was funny indeed. In an “it’s funny cause it’s true” kind of way. Put like that though… the sheer magnitude of things that has happened in your lives in the passed few years… yeesh! Uncle already!
February 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
#9 really did hit the nail on the head.
February 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I got that you were trying to be funny. Better put, you were funny. Some people don’t get that because they don’t have “your kind” of a sense of humor. That’s okay, I guess. I personally howled when I saw George! as a portion of a slide.
Situational depression can totally happen, and as with you, as I’ve gotten older I have more at stake and it hits home more. You just don’t bounce back as quick from things, even though you may have a better perspective on life.
So, kudos to you and your family. Hang in there, it sounds so much like you are doing exactly what’s needed to get things back where you want them to be.
February 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Crap Jon, I wrote you this great comment, and then hit a wrong key and lost it all. I liked your presentation. I thought it was funny.
Here are my questions;
Is the Prozac helping?
What the hell did GEORGE! do to you?
Have you considered that it is ok to come to the decision that a pet is not a good fit for the family, and it is ok, and a good choice for the pet to find the pet a new family who is more ready to handle the particular pets temperment and needs?
Have you had Coco checked for neurological problems? Problems with controlling toileting behavior are often a symptom of a neurological problem in a pet.
Have you considered “puppy prozac” for Coco?
Have you been to dog obedience classes?
February 29th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I hope you realize how much some of us appreciate you and Heather coming forward with your experiences with depression. It’s courageous. And for readers like me who suffer too, It’s unbelievably comforting to know I’m not alone.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
hugs to all. i am currently dealing with my second bout of depression and take 50mg of zoloft (generic) per day to function normally and to not cry over silly things like what type of pizza we are going to be ordering tonight, which I was doing every third day before I started the zoloft. The decision was not taken lightly, but every day I am grateful that I talked to my doctor.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
I’m glad you’re getting help and feeling better. That’s what counts. It’s not for others to pass judgment until they’ve walked in your shoes. I really enjoy both yours and Heather’s sites. I think both of you do a great service when you talk about this and allow this kind of dialogue to happen. Thanks.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Good for you, Jon. I had what some call “situational depression” for most of 2007, and I basically knew something was seriously wrong with me but didn’t have the knowledge of what, or how to fix it, or the courage to do so. I just don’t know anyone with depression, or at least no one who has ever shared their illness with me. I’ve read Heather’s accounts over the years, but they were just so dark and severe that I didn’t connect with it. I appreciate you sharing this. It helps everyone, even the critical MF’s who think they know everything. Eventually they will remember your story because they are living it. The Armstrong’s rule. Even Coco. That little shit.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Echoing alot of what people said. You know how many readers Dooce touches - and now how many lives you touch - here I sit in a small town north-east of the border and I log on every day, many times a day, to see what both you of have written. You both touch many many lives with your words. I hope you realize how you enrich my life, just with your words and pictures. I think you are incredibly smart, Jon. I am SO glad that you have seen what all this stress was doing to you, and you seeked to try and make it a bit better. My BIL has bipolar dx. He has known my SIL (my husbands sister) since they were 17. They are in their 40’s .. 3 children later, and he just was dx about 5 years ago. I kept saying to my sil you have to help yourself too, all this stress and caring about him will kill you. She looks well over her age. But she is finally gaining control and is on meds. You HAVE to take care of yourself to be able to take care of the rest of your family. You are very very kind (both of you) to make this very public, because mental illness is SO prevalent, but still not widely understood unless you know someone who lives with it. I wish you and Heather nothing but peace, harmony, better vacations :0), and lots and lots of hugs coming your way because you are both totally awesome!! (btw .. ENT thinks I have had a chronic infection in my nose, perscribed antibiotic cream for now, then he described the nettie pot that you had told us about and I was proud to say yes, I HAVE heard of that .. )
February 29th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Thanks for blogging this, Jon. After battling depression for many years, I finally started on Zoloft about a month ago and the results have been a breath of fresh air. I’m much easier to be around, and my wife is very appreciative. I know the side effects can be pretty wicked, but I hope things continue to improve for you.
Fuck the nay-sayers and do what you’ve gotta do.
jason
February 29th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
I think it’s pretty impressively brave. Can I inquire as to what made you decide it was time to do it? Was there a specific point or was it just a culmination of events?
February 29th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Some diseases are “accessible” to those who don’t have them, such as asthma to someone who’s been desperately winded or near-drowned — they can imagine it and empathize. Depression is not one of these accessible conditions; people who have never had more than “the blues” often can’t fathom depression any more than a 16-year-old boy can comprehend erectile dysfunction.
The unaffected misinterpret the symptoms of depression as negative qualities (laziness or self-indulgence) and gin up disdainful responses. I don’t know which is the more objectionable, the dismissive attitude these people convey or my jealousy that they’ve been spared.
Here’s what I do know: Having climbed out of the pit often enough to feel like Spiderman, I feel a) humbled, and b) near invincible. I may be no hyper-achieving high-wire act — and don’t care to be — but I can marshal inexorable willpower and faith and sense of self. I’ve had to do so simply to get out of bed day after day until I arose from my sickbed. The unaffected cannot imagine the strength that I can now apply to my life’s goals. I can grind through mountains that would crush them.
And now, for cinema pop psychotherapy: I like the Louis Malle’s film Damage wherein La Binoche says coolly, “Damaged people are dangerous; they know they can survive.”
Here’s to damage.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
i always applaud others for speaking out on their health and what they are doing about it. i’m on prozac as well…have been for almost two months now. i have generalized anxiety disorder. i eat right, i exercise, i see a therapist, but something extra was needed.
there’s such a negative stigma behind needing SSRI’s….not fair…
February 29th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
In my early twenties, a traumatic experience brought on anxiety attacks. I thought I was dying. I somehow managed to figure out what was wrong me on my own, and did actually “suck it up” and they eventually stopped. But now, 15 years later, I found that my husband’s impending deployment (he’s career USAF, this is not a new thing, but any mean) put me into what I’ve seen here described as “situational depression.” I recognized it for what it was, even if I didn’t know it’s name and talked to my doctor and got help. (Side note: LEXAPRO!!!! It was my miracle medication!). I didn’t understand why all of the sudden I needed it, but I sure as hell was happy that it was there when I did. Reading your posts and others’ comments, now I know what caused it and hopefully I won’t have a need for it again. But if I do, rest assured that I will start again without a moment’s hesitation or shame. In fact, like someone else mentioned, I couldn’t stop telling people what an amazing experience I had with it. And like others, I get so tired of folks saying that anti-depressants are somehow a “danger to society.” Whoever mentioned insulin nailed it–I always use blood pressure medication as my example. Why not help yourself? Why be miserable and unhappy? Why chose to go through life like that?
Thanks to honest discussions like yours, Heather’s and Dad Gone Mad’s, hopefully more people will come to understand this type of suffering IS NOT NECESSARY and will take whatever steps they need to get help.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Hey Jon,
great post.
My comment is a repeat of (#8- Randy) in regards to SAD. Has that come up at all for you at all? I know this Utah winter is kicking everyone’s ass and I know you mentioned here somewhere that being on the beach in Ca was pretty amazing. Just wondered if you might have looked into it.
You both should be so proud of yourselves. Looking at things and taking the necessary steps to try to stay ahead of it.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Go with the flow, do what you have to do and be happy spring is on its way.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Everyone told me I was doing it wrong when my daughter refused to be potty trained. Even now, she’s 4 yrs old, and she’s terrified of pooping in the big potty. But we’re working on it gently. She loves wearing underpants and keeping them dry. It’s just that damn poop thing.
Everyone told me that all women freak out with a newborn and you just have to get over it. Even after weeks of not sleeping or eating, they said I need to man-up and get it done.
Everyone told me that everyone has debt and not to worry about it. It was swallowing us whole. We’re finishing up a credit consolidation program.
Everyone told me that the baby weight just falls off on it’s own and sure, some exercise would help, but chasing after a toddler will burn more calories than anything.
Everyone told me to just put the vegetables on her plate and make her starve if she didn’t eat them. (They have NO IDEA what stubborn is, btw).
So- I don’t give a flying rat’s ass what other people “think”. If they’re so fucking brilliant, tell them to get their own lives under control before they start dictating in someone else’s. And while they’re at it, where’s that damn cure for AIDS????
You have my utmost respect for seeking prof. help. Most men don’t.
February 29th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
ok….so i don’t want to sound preachy (i’m a yoga teacher) but i think it would be wonderful if both of you would give yoga a shot. i too suffered from depression brought on my response to stress…(mainly returning to college in mid-20’s, working a full time job, and putting myself through full time undergraduate program all at the same time) i’m a big internalizer, bit of a martyr, big on empathy and so i tend to carry the weight of others sorrows. the yoga helped me to destress, and lay some of those burdens down. i’ve since gone through many troubling times…being laid off, losing a hugely important relationship, issues with my parents, moving far away from my friends/support, decision to quit my job and go freelance, being very poor for a while after that, a miscarriage (some of this concurrently).
my point is that with the yoga, it hasn’t spiraled out of control into a pit of despair. just try it. commit to doing at least 3 classes each…preferably 10 before you decide if it is or isn’t for you…talk to the studios and get a feel for the right style of class for you (i’d be happy to help you figure it out if you’d like). and i would recommend taking a class in a studio environment, rather than doing a dvd or something. there are clinical studies proving that yoga can increase certain neurotransmitters related to depression (GABA for example).
and the thing with yoga is that there are SO MANY different styles, that i can pretty much gurantee that whatever *idea* you have about what yoga is…you are right and you are also totally wrong. there is a yoga for everybody. plus it will help your snowboarding!
i guess i believe in a multi-pronged approach to healing…a cocktail if you will :).
you are much loved by this little cyber-community you two have created, and i think we would all do anything we could to help you feel better.
February 29th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
As the daughter of a woman w/bipolar, these things are not only VERY difficult to “tease out” and tackle through the years, but van deeply a/effect family dynamics in a myriad of ways. It is BEYOND commendable that you are both not only talking about this publicly, but talking about it and dealing with this together. I can promise you, that the united front you are building now, will only enhance the loving environment in which you are raising your wildly adorable daughter (and puppies!)
You two are the highlight of my every day (true story) and I fully support your freedom to make whatever choice works for your life!!
xoxox,
S
February 29th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
I battled anxiety and depression for many years. Many people don’t understand that anxiety and depression are closely linked, especially when sleep deprivation comes into play. One of the ways your body makes more serotonin is by sleeping. Often when you’re stressed, you don’t sleep. If you can’t make more serotonin, it’s bad news. This might not be what you’re going through, Jon, but it explains the connection for some people.
I’m proud of you for sharing this with everyone.
I also laughed at parts of the presentation, particularly the mention of George!
February 29th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I hate that you’re going through a tough time but good on you for being so open about it. Stress and depression can wreak havoc on your physical well-being. I know - I experienced it first hand. I wonder where my experiences would rank on your presentation - divorce, moving, losing my job and not having any family closer than 900 miles to help me through it. Oh yeah, all of that happened within a few weeks of one another.
People are quick to discount the mind body connection but as you know, it is quite real. I had insomnia, joint pain, migraines, my hair was turning grey - and I was just 34 years old. I felt like I was 80. But enough about me. The point I am trying to make is that you have to take care of yourself the best way you can even if it involves taking Prozac.
February 29th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Thank you so much for writing this. I’m going through something similar and only a few understand. All the best!
February 29th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
I would like to second the questions about SAD and the questions on #54… especially about Coco.
It’s interesting, I grew up in a “pick yourself up by the bootstraps and move on” type of family, and that’s what I do. But when I read that link about “the wife doing 80% of the work” it really rang true for me… and now I’m wondering… is my husband depressed? He has been diagnosed with low testosterone… and takes medication for that. But I’m the one who works full time. I cook, I clean, I pay every bill. He stays at home with our son (a big job, I realize) and plays video games. Don’t get me wrong, I love him to pieces, but now this has me wondering. He really has a hard time being motivated to do much. Could he be depressed? He’d never admit to being depressed… but… hm… ???
February 29th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
How does Heather feel about this? I hope she doesn’t feel guilty for “bringing you down”. I’m sure you don’t feel like this is because of her. You guys are so great together! So sorry either one of you have to go through rough times.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Good for you for taking some action. That’s why tons of people don’t get help is because they get stopped by something and continue to beat their head against a wall instead of trying something new. (I know this from experience.)
You could also try acupuncture, it does great things for stress. I shattered my elbow 2 years ago, had 4 surgeries, a pain med addiction and stay in the local mental hospital for that, and some major depression along with it all. I honestly don’t think I’d still be alive without the acupuncture. It helps unwind the system and calm everything down a bit so the body can function like it’s supposed to. They actually ran a neuro-transmitter test on me and could clearly see why I felt like shit, and now I’m on supplements so I don’t feel so crappy anymore.
March 1st, 2008 at 1:19 am
Thank you for being brave and talking about this with us. I appreciate your candor and wish you the best of look. I have been on depression meds for years and they help but winter always worsens my anxiety and sadness. I hope the spring brings us both some relief.
March 1st, 2008 at 2:40 am
I really can’t thank you enough for this post and your archive “How I Do” post in regards to living with a depressed person. My partner has always combatted depression, but this year has been a banner year for it complicated by life stresses. Perhaps unsurprisingly I, too, am beginning to really struggle with depression. The articles you quote, as well as my own meetings with a therapist, really help it all make sense. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:23 am
Hey Jon,
I hear that there are capsules of ground clogs available as a supplemental protocol. Heh.
Seriously, though, I have been a Prozac convert since 1991 after having MY version of Leta, who never slept through the night for 5 years, and held me hostage most of the day. I have lots of experience with side effects, too, and some great recommendations if you need some. Gimmie a holla if you do.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:58 am
Thanks for coming out and sharing this will all of us. I know people do not like to share this kind of personal situation…especially men…so I really commend you. I am a 31-year-old female living in Pennsylvannia. I relate a lot to Dooce because I have always had a battle with anxiety. And so has my dad and 2 of my uncles. My fiance has dealt with depression and also has to cope with me. It has been worse in the past months because we moved away from all of my friends for a fantastic job that he got. Two months after the move and after buying a house he lost that job. So he has been unemployed since October and it has been hard. There are no jobs out there. I finally found a job a few months after we moved here but I hate it. It is a boring Admonistrative Assistant job that pays diddly. It pays less than my first job out of college. Oh well…sorry for babbling. I just know where you and your wife are coming from on many levels. I am still not on the medication train but that is just because thereapy works wonders for me! I just love it! I wish all the best in the world for you!
March 1st, 2008 at 9:19 am
Thanks for the great links. They’re really helpful! I’m going to share them with some of my family. After years of undiagnosed and untreated depression (well, some of us “treated” it with drugs and alcohol), we are all getting some kind of help in various ways that have improved our life enormously. And we’re all happier, and able to be happier when we are together. Yes, depression affects families, and by taking a thoughtful and open approach to getting help, you are not only helping yourself, you are helping your family. And generously sharing with us helps us too.
March 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am
Jon,
I am a big supporter of getting help when its needed. You were smart to see that and handle it. I used to live in Colorado and about February or March EVERYONE starts getting a bit insane after being cooped up inside for 9 months. It just starts to get to you or at least it did to most everyone I know. I love the mountains very very much but I get the depression that goes with it. I’m sure that there was an underlying cause for your depression but without a way to really “run it off” it gets to a person. I hope your feeling better soon.
Doodlerah
March 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am
Jon - I don’t have anything to add to all the great comments you’ve already received, but just wanted to quickly delurk to say that I think you’re helping more people than you know by sharing your story.
I struggled with pretty severe depression for seven years (just before blogs became popular) and can’t imagine what a relief it would have been to read a blogger whom I respect sharing that he was experiencing something similar. Thank you for your honest, thought-provoking reflections on this issue. Keep up the good work!
March 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Jon,
Do what you have to - it’s your life and your choices. If medication and therapy is what it takes to be happy, who are we to judge?
20 years ago, during my teens, my brother was diagnosed as a manic depressive (what a hideous title!!) and it’s only last year that I decided that I was tired, stressed out and needed to get myself sorted. I’ve been on citalopram for a year now, and had 6 months of wicked-good therapy. 20 years of my brother, mother and father dealing with his probelms, coupled with fast (and fantastic) marriage and 3 continent moves in just 2 years meant that I was overwhelmed.
I’m feeling better. I haven’t told many people about the meds or therapy, because it’s MY business and they can’t even hope to understand how I’ve been feeling. And that’s where I stand - this is YOUR business and therefor YOU need to make the choices. The fact that you share it with us, the internet public, is pure luck. How else would I know that I’m not alone?
lots of love to you, Heather and Leta
Liz x
March 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I like what comment #22 said and I took it as advice for myself. “Don’t feel the need to explain yourself to your readers.” Well said!
March 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
You and you alone know what works best for you.
Though lots of good intentioned people have put forth a lot of different suggestions, it is very plain that you make no decision with haste. Prozac is working for you, period. End of story. Glad you are feeling better.
Thank you for putting yourself out there for the world to see. No easy task. That’s why you blog and the we the masses are relegated to mere comments.
Rock on, Jon Armstrong. Rock on…
March 1st, 2008 at 4:14 pm
curious to how much you think the blogging has played into your stress/depression? we had a website with message board and it caused us a great amount of anxiety/depression. wondering if that is part of the battle?
~melissa
March 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Jon,
I’m 22 years old, I’m a university student (6 weeks till grad, woot!) from Canada. I’m not a parent. I don’t have a mortgage and because I’m a student I never make enough to have to pay taxes. I live in a country that gives me free health care when I get sick (including mental illnesses if I had to deal with one), and never have to stress about medical care. I have an amazing supportive boyfriend and a part time job I love. I’m moving to a great new city this summer and I’ve worked out a way to pay back my student loans. And while I did have a less than functional family life as a child, and while I’ve weathered quite a few traumas, my life is pretty great.
I suffer from chronic depression and my boyfriend, since meeting me six years ago, has developed really bad anxiety. We don’t medicate with pharmaceuticals ourselves because we’ve found various other things that work really well with us, just like you and Heather do what works for you.
I just wanted you to know that you are right. Living with someone who has depression can contribute to having it yourself. I’ve seen what living with me has done to Brian. I’ve seen him hospitalized with abnormal heart rhythms caused by a serious pericardial infection that the ER doctors said only took hold the way it did in him (a healthy, active, at the time 23 year old) because of his immune response being so suppressed by stress and anxiety. Now a lot of this wasn’t caused directly by me, but I wonder about how I’ve affected his ability to cope. He worries about me and doesn’t take care of himself.
I’ve seen myself knocked out time and time again, made physically sick with illnesses that came seemingly out of nowhere at times of high stress. Once I figured this out I’ve been much better able to head them off.
This realization, that your mental state is, in part, hurting your physical health will allow you to get help for and fix those behaviours before they get the better of you and you end up in bed for two weeks wanting to die. I’m really happy for you, and I hope you continue to figure this out. You’re not alone.
We don’t cope with things the same way “normal” people do, but what’s normal anyway?
Love to you, Heather, and Leta. And to paraphrase your beautiful wife, hold onto your fucking family.
Cheers,
Amber
March 1st, 2008 at 8:39 pm
I admire you a great deal for sharing this with us. I admire you even more for sticking around when a lot of guys would have bailed. You and Heather really love each other, which is quite awesome.
I was surprised that GEORGE! was a stress factor, and will you forgive me if I tell you that it made me laugh?
You are one helluva dude, Jon. Here’s hoping the Prozac works it’s magic for you
P.S. I, too, live in Salt Lake City and can’t wait for spring. Bring on the allergies!
March 1st, 2008 at 10:27 pm
My mother suffers from manic depression and I have myself, suffered serious bouts of depression from the stress of graduate school. Whether this derives from something genetic or something learned neither me nor my therapist is sure. Nevertheless, it has been difficult for me to take care of myself and thus take care of those I love and am responsible for. I think the more we can talk about our experiences, and the less the stigma and silence of depression pervades society, the better. I admire your courage.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:05 am
i have had much adversity and awful things happen to me, and i have had painful days, where i have a glimpse of what it must feel like for a clinically depressed person ALL THE TIME. and it is HORRIBLE. so do what you need to, take care of yourself, and those times where you feel free and optimistic, relish them. those days where you feel like you have a choice, choose life, keep on the sunny side, look up, seek out a patch of warm sun streaming through a window. you can set the tone in your home, people say the mom sets the tone, but when my husband is a big black cloud it drags me down, and oftentimes all that is needed is relentless optimism. it is hard to be the cheerleading half of a couple all the time, but it is worth it. in sickness and in health. i am wondering if heather is pregnant again. much love to you all,
-an avid reader and identifier
March 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 am
I’m gonna have to agree with ya here on stress and depression and it’s effect on your health. Three years ago, right after the birth of my second child, my older child was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. I’d had a stressful pregnancy with a near miscarriage and early labor and illness, so I went into both of those life altering events with stress already present. Fast forward over the next two years…perpetual stress with continued illness between both kids and myself and last year at the beginning of the year I felt like I was dying. My immune system just had shut down, I was getting sick every two weeks for months. I found out that my thyroid was shot and that I had contracted mono somewhere along the line. I was also severely anemic and in such a hormonal imbalanced state that it was amazing I wasn’t just in a puddle on the floor. I got medication for the thyroid, started taking vitamins and just generally trying to take it easy. I didn’t do antidepressants then, though my doctor prescribed them. I gave myself some time to see how I would do before I went that route. I took a couple of months, but just getting to physically feel better made a world of difference. Knock on wood, I haven’t been sick ONE time this entire winter (first time in four years) and my stress level is much better (both kids in school to give me and my husband some time), a good job change for my husband. We just made a overhaul on our life…nothing drastic really, but we decided to take control of ourselves and just pull back the reigns on life running us over, rather in how we dealt with what came our way. HUGE change man…HUGE. So, with that said, I think you’re on the road. Your stress is fairly typical for your age and place in life. All of us in this age bracket with small kids are feelin your pain majorly. Yet, people underestimate just how stressful this time in life can be. You go from your carefree 20s/30s into the real stuff of life with a family, it can knock the wind out of you both literally and figuratively. You’re doing good. You’re doing so well that it takes alot of stress to keep your life going. The combination of your therapy, drugs and perspective…and in truth, time, will make things better. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Without you and Heather, there is no family and therefore no website for us to enjoy. You don’t have to explain or apologize for trying to make things better for yourself. Looking back over the past few years of my life with my husband and children I shake my head and marvel how I got through it with my sanity at all intact. But I did, and so will you my friend.
March 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
Oh yeah, and since I know you love music like I do and it will “cheer you up” if you like it, check out this great musician
http://www.virb.com/boniver
March 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm
An interesting post at HuffPost today:
“What depressed the cavemen? It may strike us as a particularly modern malaise for a time-poor, fast-paced society, but a new reappraisal of depression suggests it has always been around.
A leading psychiatrist says that depression is not a human defect at all, but a defense mechanism that in its mild and moderate forms can force a healthy reassessment of personal circumstances.
Dr Paul Keedwell, an expert on mood disorders at the Institute of Psychiatry, argues all people are vulnerable to depression in the face of stress to varying degrees, and always have been.
The fact it has survived so long - and not been eradicated by evolution - indicates it has helped the human race become stronger. “
March 2nd, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Jon, I can attest to the learned depression. I grew up in a depression household and the only coping methods I know are all depression/depressive methods. I had no idea until I read a book to help me deal with my mothers depression and realized that I was reading about myself.
Thank you for sharing. I know there are a lot of people out there who live with a depressive and think they’re overreacting when they start worrying about their own mental health.
As for the adorable Coco-ness…I’m sure you guys are doing just fine, but I thought I’d share a tip that has made our second set of pups much easier than the first set: set an alarm or something to remind you to take her out every 3 hours (increasing the time as she gets older and better control) and keep her out there until she pees or poops. We actually encourage the pups ‘hurry, puddle, Murray…hurry puddle!” (or ‘pile’ if they’ve just woken up or eaten) and eventually they learn that when I say puddle they sure as hell better pee before they have to go back inside or they won’t get to for another 3 hours. Seriously. It saved my sanity. The first set of pups drove me to screaming and crying, but this second set, although they are actually more strong willed and difficult, have been a lot less trouble and this is one of the reasons why.
One other thing that can make things better…teach Coco to bark on command. Eventually, when she is good at it, start admonishing her NOT to bark when you haven’t told her to. (We make our dogs lie down when they’ve done something wrong. They know by our tone of voice that we’re unhappy and learn pretty quickly to avoid the behavior.) Coco, being an Aussie, is amazingly smart, I’m sure, and she’ll learn fast. Just remember that timing is imperative. If you don’t catch her in the act, she won’t understand why she’s in trouble.
Anyway…hope this was helpful; if not, ignore as needed.
Again, thanks for your post and our best to you all.
March 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Six months ago, 20 mg of Lexapro per day saved this 23-year-olds life.
Boo to my immediate family for grinding it into my brain that depression and anxiety are just euphemisms for being a pussy and a crybaby.
Yay for my friends at college who saw me turning into a zombie and begged me to go talk to someone.
Keep on truckin’.
March 2nd, 2008 at 5:32 pm
After kids, you realize what a scary world it is…it’s enough to depress us all…it took me a long time to get over the feeling I’m “pulling the wool over their eyes” not being able to tell my kids tht the world is a terrible scary place and that their state of childhood wouldn’t last forever…I look at them and miss them while I’m with them…a strange feeling…and don’t get me stared on the fear someone will abduct them…it’s amazing any of us can cope…but that we do…depressed or not…just paranoid….
March 2nd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
You know how sometimes you think “if I could help one person” …. well, this morning, around 3:30 AM, my husband told me he was going to go to a therapist and instead of remaning on the medication prescribed by our GP go to a psychiatrist and get his medication “adjusted” or changed hopefully making it more effective. My husband is only 45 and is definitely having a midlife “thing”.
And yes, STRESS. We’ve had numerous family deaths and nursed and cared for three family members until they died, both my husbands parents died unexpectedly, my step father died this past Christmas Day, we’ve moved twice - one included a relocation two hours away, changed jobs, we now own two houses (over a million in property and don’t know if we can sell the house we’re not living in and make any $$), we’re raising two soon-to-be teenagers (at a time we thought we’d be planning a second honeymoon - I’m 54) - the stock market is dropping daily so our “nest egg” in blue chips is strained, we’re paying for private school for two children (that aren’t ‘ours’) and putting another that is through college,
The list goes on but until I saw your graph, the lightbulb didn’t. I hadn’t even thought really about how much stress we’ve really been under.
Fires everywhere. (oh, and not long ago literally there were fires everywhere - we live in the San Diego area)
When I saw your graph and sat down and talked to my husband we both cried. When we read your post we realized we are grieving as fast as we can and it still isn’t fast enough we are running as fast as we can but it isn’t fast enough, we’re eating, sleeping, doing everything fast and furiously just to keep up and now see, we’ll never be fast enough. Of course that’s not the “cure” but we have a clearer picture of what’s going on - so, thanks. Sincerely. You may have saved a man and a marriage.
March 2nd, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I’m all for people taking charge and doing what it takes to get better. I have a friend who is severely depressed and just can’t seem to find a therapist that she can a.) afford and b.) be comfortable enough to NOT RUN AWAY and open up. She’s been suffering like this for years.
I’ve been through some rough spots and regular talk therapy has been a huge help for me. Also, on the advice of my naturopath, at seriously stressful times I take one or both of two things: Rhodiola, an “adaptogen” type of ginseng which really helps me keep an even keel, and also 5HTP, which helps regulate seratonin. Rhodiola can be a bit difficult to track down but better health food stores will have both. These work really well in combination, take about a week or so to really kick in, and can be taken for as long as needed, though I usually find a bottle (about a 6 wks worth) gets me through a particularly bad period. But you can take it as long as needed. Might help you the next time you face the next hurdle. Good luck!
March 2nd, 2008 at 7:22 pm
I believe very strongly in the relationship between physical and mental health. My husband always, without fail, gets sick when he’s changing jobs or his contract is up for renewal - he always finds job uncertainty extremely stressful, and this is how his stress manifests itself.
When you get stressed you experience headaches, sleeplessness, low energy levels, indigestion, itchy skin… why shouldn’t depression just be considered a normal, treatable symptom of stress? Why does everyone have to feel so awkward talking about mental health?
I think what you’re doing - blogging about Prozac - is enormously helpful for anyone suffering from mental health issues, and for anyone whose lives are directly or indirectly effected. Thank you.
BTW - I’ve taken antidepressants and I’ve also tried the Stairmaster-your-way-back-to-happiness approach. Both have their merits.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:41 am
I wanted to share what I’d experienced as helpful, which I learned from my talk therapy and sounds like it could be part of your intertwined experience — says she: depression is caused by forcing down emotion. Usually it’s anger. Could be anger at self, anger at spouse, anger at parent (alive or dead), anger at God, whatever. It’s anger unexpressed b/c we think there’d be consequences to expressing them so we stuff it down instead. I remember telling her no way, I’m not angry. Guess what? Months later, we realized, yup, I was.
So what I’ve found helpful is to have a space or time to hit things in a safe way (sounds crazy and cliche but it works). So, like punching bags at the gym or a tennis racket, hitting a soft couch.
The theory is, when you stuff down your anger, thinking it’s not appropriate to voice it or let it out, what happens is the energy in the body becomes stuffed, compacted, and constipated, almost, and you feel drained, tired, and you start to feel like you are wilting away. Think about it, we literally breathe more shallow when we’re depressed. Not getting enough oxygen compounds the cycle. So by moving that energy up and out, you start to release it and feel more alive again. Seriously I know it sounds very 70’s touchy feely, but the more you move, the better you’ll feel. This has been LIFE changing for me. Hopefully that’s a helpful 2 cents.
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:12 am
Thanks for the links, I’m looking forward to reading them.
While your websites generate so much support, it’s such a strange double-edged sword. People voluntarily read your site and then bash you for opening up. I say this adds to your stress just as much as puppies, toddlers and a harsh winter.
I was treated for depression years ago, and though I got through it with the help of medication, I still have symptoms, but now they come in the form of anxiety. I always found it interesting how these two are linked. I started a new medication a few months ago while buying a house, but it didn’t let me sleep, so I’m in flux right now and trying to stay in check on my own. It’s not easy, that’s for sure.
Much luck to you both, I’m a loyal reader and will be for years to come.
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:30 am
Jon,
Thank you for being so open with your experience with depression and medication. It took a year of mood swings, everyday crying etc - for me to make the connection and realize I was depressed.
After much thought, I made the decision to ask my physician for help and told them I was open to medication… only to be told that my depression was not due to a chemical imbalance, but rather to “all the stuff thats going wrong with your life right now”. She felt that I was not a candidate for medication, but rather should work on changing what’s making me upset. I was definitely not expecting this (also, I live in LA…)
Thanks again for sharing.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 am
Good luck on your journey, and thank you for sharing your storey. I’m sure that your storey will help others. When I was suffering post-partum, it was Heather’s posts that led me to ask questions and get help.
In addition to the talking therapy - a thing that helped was learning to change my thinking patterns. Right now I’m reading the book “A New Earth” by Eckhart Tolle, and I think it will help me change how I feel and react to situations. A large part of it is changing how you think. If you haven’t looked at it, it might be worth looking into.
But, keep up the posts. I REALLY enjoy reading them. They make me laugh. Thanks.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:32 am
Someone may have asked this, but what is your doctor saying about the duration of medication? I’ve heard different things about how long I should take them (or whether to just stay on them indefinitely), and I’d be very curious to hear what advice you’ve received. Thanks.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 am
I too suffer from depression caused by stress. I grew up in an abusive home and almost lost my life due to my first major depression when I was 15. I’ve literally live every day under incredible amounts of stress. Dealing with being a single mother and trying to pay the rent, a daughter who is going deaf and a son who is has been in and out of trouble for two years. We live a seemingly normal life but on the inside I become so overwhelmed with stress that I lay down one day to cover my head and forget that it might be an episode of depression. I’m back on my medication now because I’m under so much stress right now that I live every day with a 12 hour anxiety attack.
Do what you need to do and tell everyone else to go fly a kite.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
You and Heather live life in the public eye. That’s stress enough. But selfishly, I don’t want you to stop living that way, because your honesty and bravery in talking about your life makes me feel better about mine. : )
Good for you for taking Prozac, and for also getting therapy. Both are enormously helpful, as I know from personal experience.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Good for you, Blurb. Recognizing and doing something about depression takes courage. Discussing it with others takes even more - and blurbing it over the web-waves - even more on top of that. Kudos.
Stress is a weird thing…. I swam in the stress-sea for a couple of decades of work life. It was a fast-paced, highly technical environment with lives and careers on the line all the time sort of situation. I felt relatively untouchable stress-wise. It all bounced off. I coped. During that time I didn’t get it that it was a real thing. Being raised what I call cowboy-stoic, when I saw others ‘depressed’ during that time a part of me would be saying, “Depressed? Get it together man! Walk it off! Get a grip! Stop whining” while my mouth said something supportive.
Lately though personal/family issues have brought me to a point where I had to seek help myself. Now this big tough-guy is taking antidepressants, working at getting better, de-stressing purposefully, and talking about it. My how the world turns, huh?
Hang in there, Blurb.
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Jon - I’ll add my worthless two cents to the pile of comments you’ve gotten…
you’ve been shouldering major stress, i don’t know about this lawsuit you’ve mentioned, but just the history with Heather’s depression, and her uphill battle with meds and getting it to a manageable place, in addition to regular life, a child, dogs, it all starts to add up. And when you are the shoulder, sometimes that shoulder gets really tired…so, good for you and your family for being aware and strong enough to be proactive what you are going through. It doesn’t seem maudlin or overwrought at all. It’s actually a very selfless act.
And i did laugh at your presentation. But it was a bittersweet laugh. Be well.
March 3rd, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Dude, don’t let anybody give you shit about stress not causing depression, because it totally does. Currently my own personal spouse-type person is under unbelievable stress, and is unbelievably depressed, and is constantly grinding her teeth and is basically unable to eat or sleep. That anybody could even imply that stress doesn’t cause (or exacerbate) depression is ludicrous.
You’re doing the right thing.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
I feel compelled to respond to your latest post, even though you have plenty of comments to read through, and I’ve never felt compelled to comment on any blog before. I’ve loved Heather’s blog for over a year and just a few months ago began checking in on blurbomat. Actually, I look forward to your family’s humanity, artistry and wry take on the world every day. From personal and family experience, I know that depression manifests itself in inexplicable ways, and anyone who hasn’t been in the depths of it cannot quite understand or relate. The articles in which you address depression show such honesty, courage and sensitivity to Heather’s and your own illnesses - it amazes me. (Every spouse dealing with a depressed partner should read them.) Some may not be able to grasp the idea of a person with depression maintaining their sense of humor, but again, I know it is very true and possibly a life-saving grasp on ourselves. Also, we may have a gene that predisposes us to depression, but I don’t think it condemns our children. Instead, we are better able to equip our children with knowledge and tools to recognize it in themselves and handle it. Thanks to you and Heather for sharing your lives and family with the world. All the best in your recovery. (P.S. After surviving puppyhood twice in my adult life, and vowing never, ever, ever to do that again, we rescued our last dog from the humane society. There are still some challenges, but I think we’ve gotten much more sleep than you two. I have to say, though, Coco IS adorable in all the pictures.)
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
This may be already mentioned in the comments, but I’m lazy and don’t plan on reading them. Because of that, I’m thankful that you do.
My husband and I are about to enter the voyage of parenthood. Both he and I (when I’m not knocked up) enjoy better living through chemistry, and, in our own little way, compete to be the craziest person in our household. What do you and Heather do to prevent rubbing depression/stress/anxiety habits onto Leta?
I’d like to have a game plan before our little girl enters the world. (oh, can you sense the obsessive planning that leads to anxiety and then to crazy feels of being out of control?)
Thanks for your openness!
March 4th, 2008 at 6:50 am
I agree about stress triggering both depression & illness. I usually get sick more when I’m stressed. I suffer from chronic depression and was diagnosed as bipolar in 9/2006. It really has rocked my world and made me question my family history etc. with alcoholic dad & grandfather who could have been self medicating. I have to stay away from all things alcohol now as that and meds don’t mix well. I’m on Effexor, Risperdal and Lamictal. You need to do what it takes to take care of yourself… for you, Heather, Leta and the doggies.
March 4th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Thank you so much. I also have a depressed spouse and have been on Prozac at different times. I appreciate you posting links as support for the spouse of a depressed person is hard to come by. Blessings and peace to you and your struggle.
Kim
March 4th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
I feel so blessed to be able to share in your good times through your website and Heather’s. It is a vulnerable place to share with others the truth. I am a new reader, so I am unfamiliar with all the tough times but thought your Power Point Presentation was priceless. We could all fill in the blanks with our own lives and it’s a great way to approach some really difficult situations - with honesty, humor and conciseness!
In my family I have been affected by the disease of addiction and have found great solace in 12 Step Groups. It’s a place where I learn that I did not cause the illness, cannot contol it, and cannot cure it. However, I can learn how to cope and learn that the answer lies in my own expectations and ability to accept life on life’s terms. It sounds like you are on that path, especially with the combination of therapy and a mood altering drug. Therapy rocks! (Well, it actually sucks but helps too).
Ciao and keep on keeping it real!
March 4th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Hey Jon,
You are very brave for “coming out” like this. But I’m not surprised, considering that you already wrote about your earlier diagnosis of dysthymia almost two years ago. Do you think your current depression might have evolved (at least in part) from dysthymia?
I wrote back then to thank you for writing about your dysthymia, and how it prompted me to get diagnosed myself. Since then I’ve found that a weekly afternoon or evening “off”, preferably with some sort of exercise or activity, keeps me on an even keel. Does your own schedule allow something similar?
I still enjoy your writing and Heather’s. And Leta is adorable - and if she’s anything like my own daughter, even on her best behaviour she will still be a challenge
March 6th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I just wanted to send my utter support and LOVE to you, dooce, every member of your amazing little family, dogs and fish included!
You are all amazing people who deserve nothing but the very best life has to offer, but since this is, after all, life we’re talking about, and it doesn’t always work out, GOOD FOR YOU for getting help when you need it!
Don’t listen to the haters. I wish I had more useful things to say, but I at least wanted to let you know that we in this little family on the East Coast think you’re all fucking incredible. *HUGS*
Keep writing, love. We’ll keep reading!
Much love,
Me, the hubby, and the kiddo. The cat and fish too. ^_^
March 7th, 2008 at 11:26 am
You could blame Utah:
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0563506920080306?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
March 10th, 2008 at 8:14 am
sounds to me like you and Heather are right on track. all the best
March 31st, 2008 at 9:18 am
hi jon,
thank you for sharing your story!
my husband has recently been battling depression and I am looking for suggestions of any reading material or websites that may help me understand how to deal with it.
any suggestions you may have are appreciated.
thanks,
a
April 6th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Very nice writing about a difficult subject. Few people want to talk about it (unless you pay them) or acknowledge it as a real medical problem. When I told my wife about my depression and decision to take medication she said, “Snap out of it! Don’t you care what people think?”
Thank you for talking about depression & stress and for sharing your life.