Stress, Depression & Me
February 29th, 2008Since coming out yesterday as being on Prozac, I thought it might be good to answer a few questions that were in the comments. Before I go there, I’d like to thank you all for your support and encouragement. I’m not sure I’d be doing as well without this site and without amazing readers. Thanks so much, it means the world to me.
Another thing you should know is that I’m seeing a therapist again and it’s going well. Talk therapy is really a good part of getting better.
I’d like to mention that yesterdays post is supposed to be funny. As such, there are a lot of other things going on that I’m not going to write about publicly. It is those non-public things that are larger contributors to my state. And specifically, my response to those non-public things.
Questions:
The first was along the lines of: “So you have stress. Big deal. Everybody has stress. You are saying that stress lead to depression? Give me a break.”
I’ve done a ton of reading over the years about this both for myself and to help me understand the best I can what Heather goes through.
I’d suggest the Mayo Clinic as a great place to start:
Chronic stress: Can it cause depression? - MayoClinic.com
There are a ton of links off that page to all kinds of self assessment pages.
I’d also suggest this page, which I found through a search awhile ago:
Do You Love Someone Who Suffers From Depression?
You may not agree with everything that is said, but the part that most resonated with me:
“Sometimes the spouse of a depressed partner becomes depressed as a result of living within a “depressed lifestyle” for too long. Depression is said to be contagious and can become a shroud over the spouse or family. It’s also vital to consider that depression may not only be genetic, but it can also be taught. You heard me right. For instance, our children’s most powerful classroom is the home. Both “Nature and Nurture” contribute to depression.”
The second most common thread seemed to be a kind of “how do you get from stresses of living to depression?”
As I said above, it is in my response to situations. The other thing that I think is going on is that the continued level of stress is high and I’ve been unable to fully relax and destress. There is interesting research around stress and serotonin.
Behavior: The Neurobiology of Depression (Look down the page a bit for the subheading “Stress and Serotonin”.)
Of note:
We are not saying that stress “causes” depression in people. Rather, stress is very likely interacting with an inborn genetic predisposition, such that, in some vulnerable individuals, a stressor can precipitate a mood disorder (i.e., vulnerability + stress = depression).
“This suggests that a chronic or severe stress (e.g., loss of a spouse, serious illness or injury, history of abuse) may cause similar neurochemical changes in vulnerable people, therefore triggering episodes of depression.”
Which leads to my final response around the question that stress is causing a physical manifestation of illness, i.e., “mystery illnesses”. I believe this is the case. I believe that I’ve had this happen in the past, where I’ve been down for more than a few days and it always is due to major stresses and changes in my life. It has gotten much worse as I’ve gotten older and the stakes have gotten higher. I believe that in the summer of 2006, the lawsuit and the cost for us financially caused my two week mystery illness.
I’m doing this to help myself. If this seems maudlin or overwrought, please forgive.
If you have other questions, please feel free to ask in the comments. I’ll probably do posts answering the most common threads. o
Tags: depression, stress
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March 1st, 2008 at 1:19 am
Thank you for being brave and talking about this with us. I appreciate your candor and wish you the best of look. I have been on depression meds for years and they help but winter always worsens my anxiety and sadness. I hope the spring brings us both some relief.
March 1st, 2008 at 2:40 am
I really can’t thank you enough for this post and your archive “How I Do” post in regards to living with a depressed person. My partner has always combatted depression, but this year has been a banner year for it complicated by life stresses. Perhaps unsurprisingly I, too, am beginning to really struggle with depression. The articles you quote, as well as my own meetings with a therapist, really help it all make sense. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:23 am
Hey Jon,
I hear that there are capsules of ground clogs available as a supplemental protocol. Heh.
Seriously, though, I have been a Prozac convert since 1991 after having MY version of Leta, who never slept through the night for 5 years, and held me hostage most of the day. I have lots of experience with side effects, too, and some great recommendations if you need some. Gimmie a holla if you do.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:58 am
Thanks for coming out and sharing this will all of us. I know people do not like to share this kind of personal situation…especially men…so I really commend you. I am a 31-year-old female living in Pennsylvannia. I relate a lot to Dooce because I have always had a battle with anxiety. And so has my dad and 2 of my uncles. My fiance has dealt with depression and also has to cope with me. It has been worse in the past months because we moved away from all of my friends for a fantastic job that he got. Two months after the move and after buying a house he lost that job. So he has been unemployed since October and it has been hard. There are no jobs out there. I finally found a job a few months after we moved here but I hate it. It is a boring Admonistrative Assistant job that pays diddly. It pays less than my first job out of college. Oh well…sorry for babbling. I just know where you and your wife are coming from on many levels. I am still not on the medication train but that is just because thereapy works wonders for me! I just love it! I wish all the best in the world for you!
March 1st, 2008 at 9:19 am
Thanks for the great links. They’re really helpful! I’m going to share them with some of my family. After years of undiagnosed and untreated depression (well, some of us “treated” it with drugs and alcohol), we are all getting some kind of help in various ways that have improved our life enormously. And we’re all happier, and able to be happier when we are together. Yes, depression affects families, and by taking a thoughtful and open approach to getting help, you are not only helping yourself, you are helping your family. And generously sharing with us helps us too.
March 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am
Jon,
I am a big supporter of getting help when its needed. You were smart to see that and handle it. I used to live in Colorado and about February or March EVERYONE starts getting a bit insane after being cooped up inside for 9 months. It just starts to get to you or at least it did to most everyone I know. I love the mountains very very much but I get the depression that goes with it. I’m sure that there was an underlying cause for your depression but without a way to really “run it off” it gets to a person. I hope your feeling better soon.
Doodlerah
March 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am
Jon - I don’t have anything to add to all the great comments you’ve already received, but just wanted to quickly delurk to say that I think you’re helping more people than you know by sharing your story.
I struggled with pretty severe depression for seven years (just before blogs became popular) and can’t imagine what a relief it would have been to read a blogger whom I respect sharing that he was experiencing something similar. Thank you for your honest, thought-provoking reflections on this issue. Keep up the good work!
March 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Jon,
Do what you have to - it’s your life and your choices. If medication and therapy is what it takes to be happy, who are we to judge?
20 years ago, during my teens, my brother was diagnosed as a manic depressive (what a hideous title!!) and it’s only last year that I decided that I was tired, stressed out and needed to get myself sorted. I’ve been on citalopram for a year now, and had 6 months of wicked-good therapy. 20 years of my brother, mother and father dealing with his probelms, coupled with fast (and fantastic) marriage and 3 continent moves in just 2 years meant that I was overwhelmed.
I’m feeling better. I haven’t told many people about the meds or therapy, because it’s MY business and they can’t even hope to understand how I’ve been feeling. And that’s where I stand - this is YOUR business and therefor YOU need to make the choices. The fact that you share it with us, the internet public, is pure luck. How else would I know that I’m not alone?
lots of love to you, Heather and Leta
Liz x
March 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I like what comment #22 said and I took it as advice for myself. “Don’t feel the need to explain yourself to your readers.” Well said!
March 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
You and you alone know what works best for you.
Though lots of good intentioned people have put forth a lot of different suggestions, it is very plain that you make no decision with haste. Prozac is working for you, period. End of story. Glad you are feeling better.
Thank you for putting yourself out there for the world to see. No easy task. That’s why you blog and the we the masses are relegated to mere comments.
Rock on, Jon Armstrong. Rock on…
March 1st, 2008 at 4:14 pm
curious to how much you think the blogging has played into your stress/depression? we had a website with message board and it caused us a great amount of anxiety/depression. wondering if that is part of the battle?
~melissa
March 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Jon,
I’m 22 years old, I’m a university student (6 weeks till grad, woot!) from Canada. I’m not a parent. I don’t have a mortgage and because I’m a student I never make enough to have to pay taxes. I live in a country that gives me free health care when I get sick (including mental illnesses if I had to deal with one), and never have to stress about medical care. I have an amazing supportive boyfriend and a part time job I love. I’m moving to a great new city this summer and I’ve worked out a way to pay back my student loans. And while I did have a less than functional family life as a child, and while I’ve weathered quite a few traumas, my life is pretty great.
I suffer from chronic depression and my boyfriend, since meeting me six years ago, has developed really bad anxiety. We don’t medicate with pharmaceuticals ourselves because we’ve found various other things that work really well with us, just like you and Heather do what works for you.
I just wanted you to know that you are right. Living with someone who has depression can contribute to having it yourself. I’ve seen what living with me has done to Brian. I’ve seen him hospitalized with abnormal heart rhythms caused by a serious pericardial infection that the ER doctors said only took hold the way it did in him (a healthy, active, at the time 23 year old) because of his immune response being so suppressed by stress and anxiety. Now a lot of this wasn’t caused directly by me, but I wonder about how I’ve affected his ability to cope. He worries about me and doesn’t take care of himself.
I’ve seen myself knocked out time and time again, made physically sick with illnesses that came seemingly out of nowhere at times of high stress. Once I figured this out I’ve been much better able to head them off.
This realization, that your mental state is, in part, hurting your physical health will allow you to get help for and fix those behaviours before they get the better of you and you end up in bed for two weeks wanting to die. I’m really happy for you, and I hope you continue to figure this out. You’re not alone.
We don’t cope with things the same way “normal” people do, but what’s normal anyway?
Love to you, Heather, and Leta. And to paraphrase your beautiful wife, hold onto your fucking family.
Cheers,
Amber
March 1st, 2008 at 8:39 pm
I admire you a great deal for sharing this with us. I admire you even more for sticking around when a lot of guys would have bailed. You and Heather really love each other, which is quite awesome.
I was surprised that GEORGE! was a stress factor, and will you forgive me if I tell you that it made me laugh?
You are one helluva dude, Jon. Here’s hoping the Prozac works it’s magic for you
P.S. I, too, live in Salt Lake City and can’t wait for spring. Bring on the allergies!
March 1st, 2008 at 10:27 pm
My mother suffers from manic depression and I have myself, suffered serious bouts of depression from the stress of graduate school. Whether this derives from something genetic or something learned neither me nor my therapist is sure. Nevertheless, it has been difficult for me to take care of myself and thus take care of those I love and am responsible for. I think the more we can talk about our experiences, and the less the stigma and silence of depression pervades society, the better. I admire your courage.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:05 am
i have had much adversity and awful things happen to me, and i have had painful days, where i have a glimpse of what it must feel like for a clinically depressed person ALL THE TIME. and it is HORRIBLE. so do what you need to, take care of yourself, and those times where you feel free and optimistic, relish them. those days where you feel like you have a choice, choose life, keep on the sunny side, look up, seek out a patch of warm sun streaming through a window. you can set the tone in your home, people say the mom sets the tone, but when my husband is a big black cloud it drags me down, and oftentimes all that is needed is relentless optimism. it is hard to be the cheerleading half of a couple all the time, but it is worth it. in sickness and in health. i am wondering if heather is pregnant again. much love to you all,
-an avid reader and identifier
March 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 am
I’m gonna have to agree with ya here on stress and depression and it’s effect on your health. Three years ago, right after the birth of my second child, my older child was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. I’d had a stressful pregnancy with a near miscarriage and early labor and illness, so I went into both of those life altering events with stress already present. Fast forward over the next two years…perpetual stress with continued illness between both kids and myself and last year at the beginning of the year I felt like I was dying. My immune system just had shut down, I was getting sick every two weeks for months. I found out that my thyroid was shot and that I had contracted mono somewhere along the line. I was also severely anemic and in such a hormonal imbalanced state that it was amazing I wasn’t just in a puddle on the floor. I got medication for the thyroid, started taking vitamins and just generally trying to take it easy. I didn’t do antidepressants then, though my doctor prescribed them. I gave myself some time to see how I would do before I went that route. I took a couple of months, but just getting to physically feel better made a world of difference. Knock on wood, I haven’t been sick ONE time this entire winter (first time in four years) and my stress level is much better (both kids in school to give me and my husband some time), a good job change for my husband. We just made a overhaul on our life…nothing drastic really, but we decided to take control of ourselves and just pull back the reigns on life running us over, rather in how we dealt with what came our way. HUGE change man…HUGE. So, with that said, I think you’re on the road. Your stress is fairly typical for your age and place in life. All of us in this age bracket with small kids are feelin your pain majorly. Yet, people underestimate just how stressful this time in life can be. You go from your carefree 20s/30s into the real stuff of life with a family, it can knock the wind out of you both literally and figuratively. You’re doing good. You’re doing so well that it takes alot of stress to keep your life going. The combination of your therapy, drugs and perspective…and in truth, time, will make things better. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Without you and Heather, there is no family and therefore no website for us to enjoy. You don’t have to explain or apologize for trying to make things better for yourself. Looking back over the past few years of my life with my husband and children I shake my head and marvel how I got through it with my sanity at all intact. But I did, and so will you my friend.
March 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
Oh yeah, and since I know you love music like I do and it will “cheer you up” if you like it, check out this great musician
http://www.virb.com/boniver
March 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm
An interesting post at HuffPost today:
“What depressed the cavemen? It may strike us as a particularly modern malaise for a time-poor, fast-paced society, but a new reappraisal of depression suggests it has always been around.
A leading psychiatrist says that depression is not a human defect at all, but a defense mechanism that in its mild and moderate forms can force a healthy reassessment of personal circumstances.
Dr Paul Keedwell, an expert on mood disorders at the Institute of Psychiatry, argues all people are vulnerable to depression in the face of stress to varying degrees, and always have been.
The fact it has survived so long - and not been eradicated by evolution - indicates it has helped the human race become stronger. “
March 2nd, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Jon, I can attest to the learned depression. I grew up in a depression household and the only coping methods I know are all depression/depressive methods. I had no idea until I read a book to help me deal with my mothers depression and realized that I was reading about myself.
Thank you for sharing. I know there are a lot of people out there who live with a depressive and think they’re overreacting when they start worrying about their own mental health.
As for the adorable Coco-ness…I’m sure you guys are doing just fine, but I thought I’d share a tip that has made our second set of pups much easier than the first set: set an alarm or something to remind you to take her out every 3 hours (increasing the time as she gets older and better control) and keep her out there until she pees or poops. We actually encourage the pups ‘hurry, puddle, Murray…hurry puddle!” (or ‘pile’ if they’ve just woken up or eaten) and eventually they learn that when I say puddle they sure as hell better pee before they have to go back inside or they won’t get to for another 3 hours. Seriously. It saved my sanity. The first set of pups drove me to screaming and crying, but this second set, although they are actually more strong willed and difficult, have been a lot less trouble and this is one of the reasons why.
One other thing that can make things better…teach Coco to bark on command. Eventually, when she is good at it, start admonishing her NOT to bark when you haven’t told her to. (We make our dogs lie down when they’ve done something wrong. They know by our tone of voice that we’re unhappy and learn pretty quickly to avoid the behavior.) Coco, being an Aussie, is amazingly smart, I’m sure, and she’ll learn fast. Just remember that timing is imperative. If you don’t catch her in the act, she won’t understand why she’s in trouble.
Anyway…hope this was helpful; if not, ignore as needed.
Again, thanks for your post and our best to you all.
March 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Six months ago, 20 mg of Lexapro per day saved this 23-year-olds life.
Boo to my immediate family for grinding it into my brain that depression and anxiety are just euphemisms for being a pussy and a crybaby.
Yay for my friends at college who saw me turning into a zombie and begged me to go talk to someone.
Keep on truckin’.
March 2nd, 2008 at 5:32 pm
After kids, you realize what a scary world it is…it’s enough to depress us all…it took me a long time to get over the feeling I’m “pulling the wool over their eyes” not being able to tell my kids tht the world is a terrible scary place and that their state of childhood wouldn’t last forever…I look at them and miss them while I’m with them…a strange feeling…and don’t get me stared on the fear someone will abduct them…it’s amazing any of us can cope…but that we do…depressed or not…just paranoid….
March 2nd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
You know how sometimes you think “if I could help one person” …. well, this morning, around 3:30 AM, my husband told me he was going to go to a therapist and instead of remaning on the medication prescribed by our GP go to a psychiatrist and get his medication “adjusted” or changed hopefully making it more effective. My husband is only 45 and is definitely having a midlife “thing”.
And yes, STRESS. We’ve had numerous family deaths and nursed and cared for three family members until they died, both my husbands parents died unexpectedly, my step father died this past Christmas Day, we’ve moved twice - one included a relocation two hours away, changed jobs, we now own two houses (over a million in property and don’t know if we can sell the house we’re not living in and make any $$), we’re raising two soon-to-be teenagers (at a time we thought we’d be planning a second honeymoon - I’m 54) - the stock market is dropping daily so our “nest egg” in blue chips is strained, we’re paying for private school for two children (that aren’t ‘ours’) and putting another that is through college,
The list goes on but until I saw your graph, the lightbulb didn’t. I hadn’t even thought really about how much stress we’ve really been under.
Fires everywhere. (oh, and not long ago literally there were fires everywhere - we live in the San Diego area)
When I saw your graph and sat down and talked to my husband we both cried. When we read your post we realized we are grieving as fast as we can and it still isn’t fast enough we are running as fast as we can but it isn’t fast enough, we’re eating, sleeping, doing everything fast and furiously just to keep up and now see, we’ll never be fast enough. Of course that’s not the “cure” but we have a clearer picture of what’s going on - so, thanks. Sincerely. You may have saved a man and a marriage.
March 2nd, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I’m all for people taking charge and doing what it takes to get better. I have a friend who is severely depressed and just can’t seem to find a therapist that she can a.) afford and b.) be comfortable enough to NOT RUN AWAY and open up. She’s been suffering like this for years.
I’ve been through some rough spots and regular talk therapy has been a huge help for me. Also, on the advice of my naturopath, at seriously stressful times I take one or both of two things: Rhodiola, an “adaptogen” type of ginseng which really helps me keep an even keel, and also 5HTP, which helps regulate seratonin. Rhodiola can be a bit difficult to track down but better health food stores will have both. These work really well in combination, take about a week or so to really kick in, and can be taken for as long as needed, though I usually find a bottle (about a 6 wks worth) gets me through a particularly bad period. But you can take it as long as needed. Might help you the next time you face the next hurdle. Good luck!
March 2nd, 2008 at 7:22 pm
I believe very strongly in the relationship between physical and mental health. My husband always, without fail, gets sick when he’s changing jobs or his contract is up for renewal - he always finds job uncertainty extremely stressful, and this is how his stress manifests itself.
When you get stressed you experience headaches, sleeplessness, low energy levels, indigestion, itchy skin… why shouldn’t depression just be considered a normal, treatable symptom of stress? Why does everyone have to feel so awkward talking about mental health?
I think what you’re doing - blogging about Prozac - is enormously helpful for anyone suffering from mental health issues, and for anyone whose lives are directly or indirectly effected. Thank you.
BTW - I’ve taken antidepressants and I’ve also tried the Stairmaster-your-way-back-to-happiness approach. Both have their merits.
March 3rd, 2008 at 8:41 am
I wanted to share what I’d experienced as helpful, which I learned from my talk therapy and sounds like it could be part of your intertwined experience — says she: depression is caused by forcing down emotion. Usually it’s anger. Could be anger at self, anger at spouse, anger at parent (alive or dead), anger at God, whatever. It’s anger unexpressed b/c we think there’d be consequences to expressing them so we stuff it down instead. I remember telling her no way, I’m not angry. Guess what? Months later, we realized, yup, I was.
So what I’ve found helpful is to have a space or time to hit things in a safe way (sounds crazy and cliche but it works). So, like punching bags at the gym or a tennis racket, hitting a soft couch.
The theory is, when you stuff down your anger, thinking it’s not appropriate to voice it or let it out, what happens is the energy in the body becomes stuffed, compacted, and constipated, almost, and you feel drained, tired, and you start to feel like you are wilting away. Think about it, we literally breathe more shallow when we’re depressed. Not getting enough oxygen compounds the cycle. So by moving that energy up and out, you start to release it and feel more alive again. Seriously I know it sounds very 70’s touchy feely, but the more you move, the better you’ll feel. This has been LIFE changing for me. Hopefully that’s a helpful 2 cents.