Sinking In
November 7th, 2008Still basking in the afterglow of the Obama election. Still happier than I’ve been in a long time about the state of the U.S., even with the economic bad news and tough times ahead.
I felt this way in 1992 after Clinton got elected. However, I lived in Provo, Utah, and at my day job, one of my co-workers was an avid Rush Limbaugh fan, listening every day. Somewhere in mid-1993, I finally asked her to wear headphones because I couldn’t take it any more. I won’t be subjecting myself to the partisan comedians this time around.
The thing that strikes me about most of the partisan shows is that there isn’t a true dialogue. That goes for Olbermann and Maddow as much as it does for Hannity and Limbaugh and Beck and Savage and O’Reilly. Sitting around getting angry isn’t a dialogue. It’s an emotional crack hit.
This cycle, I had hoped to have more people than the handful who disagree with my views in the comments. To the few of you who don’t agree but still chose to participate, I thank you. We’ve got a long way to go to until we can have true, civil yet dissenting political discourse in the United States. The partisan shows aren’t going to help.
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It’s interesting to see what kind of garbage is still being regurgitated by the “we don’t have to be introspective ever” GOP. E.g.,
1) “conservatives have to take back the party“;
2) GOP appears to eat its own (after introducing her to the national stage, they are now throwing Palin under the bus):
I don’t feel sorry for them or her. The very people who selected, introduced and cheered Palin are now saying that it’s her fault McCain lost the election. Right. Thank GOD for BIll O’Reilly and his no spin zone. Wait.
At some point, the hypocrisy will be replaced with pragmatism, right?
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Finally, The one heartening map I’ve seen is this one from the New York Times that shows how counties shifted more Democratic this cycle:
click image above to view a larger version
If I were a GOP strategist, I’d be taking a hard look at this map and an even harder look at how to move forward. I don’t think being more extremist and more fundamentalist is going to do it, just as it won’t play if the Obama administration takes it too far the other way. Time will tell. o
Tags: 2008 election
I’m not even listening to the right’s dreary sob fest. I’m not even gloating. I’m just basking in the feeling that Tuesday night brought. I swear, it’s a different world. And I mean that quite literally. Just ask our friends and neighbors in other countries.
It’s sort of sad that Obama doesn’t have time to bask because he has so much work to do. We’ll just have to bask for him.
The thing is, Senator McCain is really pretty centrist, but he didn’t run a centrist campaign. Does that say something about the Republican Party–that maybe it’s time to take it back from the fundamentalists and the narrow minded?
All the talk about Palin becoming the new face of the party–how is she any different from W?
I agree with you for the most part about the noise machine gasbags on TV, except for Maddow – there’s a really good article this week in New York magazine, where she discusses the fact that she will only have one guest on at a time, because she doesn’t want to play referee amongst a bunch of squabbling guests. It was only after I read that that I realized it was true.
here’s the article: http://nymag.com/news/media/51822/
And I LOVE that NY Times map. I’ve been recommending it to everyone I know. it makes me more hopeful for the future than even our new hopey president-elect.
“All the talk about Palin becoming the new face of the party–how is she any different from W?”
Much, much less intelligent. Much, much more Christianist.
Listen I am part of the “party” in question and only time will tell what will happen. Its funny I wrote in my blog about my brother telling me that I personally had to remove the crazy far right people from the party or he would never return to it. ( and i think he was speaking of the narrow minded as the person before me is)
People are going to point fingers, thats what the party that doesn’t win does. They point all over the place so that the finger doesn’t get pointed back at them.
The democrats did it the last two elections before this.
Partys go through cycles, they rise and then they fall. Then they regroup and try to rise again.
Balance will be the key but the problem that I think may happen is that to some people and I am not saying Obama, but some democrats (and republicans) in congress seem to think that “working on both sides of the ailse” means filling up both sides with your own kind and that will only work for so long before you start pissing people off.
Oddly enough though I think partisian shows are just as important as the people who are civil in a “we agree to disagree, now lets hug” way…its reality in the end.
But like you say time will be the tell all.
Jon, I am so disappointed in you and Heather. There was an incredible amount of money poured into Proposition 8 in California by the Mormons. Next time, please try harder to keep them in Utah! Have Cocoa herd them up or something. Please.
Thanks.
Jon,
As you know, I am one of your regular readers who happens to disagree with most of your political positions.
I think the GOP is going to be reeling for a bit as they look for answers. My opinion is that the answers ain’t with the Christ-ers but with the lower case “l”s (me) and the upper case “I”s. The Christ-ers are always going to come home to vote, but the GOP didn’t give Independents any legitimate reason to vote for McCain.
I would warn you Dems that the Independent vote is very fickle.
As for the partisans, I thing the significance of these shows is very rapidly diminishing, thanks to the Internet. Some are legitimately worried about the Fairness Doctrine being re-introduced and that may contribute to the vitriol.
The interview Obama had with O’Reilly was the best interview Obama did during the campaign IMHO. O’Reilly seemed to agree as he stood up for Obama on several occasions.
Yesterday Glenn Beck tore the head off of a right wing asshole who called in. I don’t think Beck deserves any particular praise for this, as it is his duty as a citizen. But he shouldn’t be accused of contributing to the problem either.
As far as the right of center bloggers (that I read anyway) most all have been gracious. If you watch Mr. Olbermann or Mr. O’Reilly, you know that the bloggers are where the real ideas are coming from, without appropriate credit of course.
man I suck.. Link to the Right wing asshole on Beck is here
jon,
i think civil discourse will happen when we stop triangulating God and the rhetoric of morals in our discussions. i think that’s what took down mitt romney in the primaries and it was how folks attempted to take down bho. no doubt, americans aren’t there yet but there are folks i for one am learning from: bill moyer, david brooks, david gergen, my husband, and yes, even oprah. Also, I happen to disagree with you about rachel, she’s one of the few who knows who she is and is unapologetic about it.
i’m like ms. moon, no gloating, just enjoying this moment. this proud moment.
I am still lit up with pride for America. We now have a president who will work to bring peace, justice, and equality to our country and to the world.
I feel like a huge burden has been lifted from my shoulders. I have been really worried about all of the horrible things that have been happening in America and throughout the world the last 8 years and now I feel I can stop carrying this burden of worry because there is someone in charge who is intelligent, who will seek help from others, and who will help me and my fellow countrymen live better lives– not just help Wall Street, big corporations, and the wealthy get richer.
May the gods bless President Obama and help him achieve everyhing we want and need for him to achieve.
Sadly, today at work a McCain Palin supporter made a racist comment about our new President-elect Obama and killed my post election buzz. She may lose her job, but it’s not going to stop her from being the person who thought and said what she did. The fact that this attitude is still out there makes this battle ahead all the more important. I hope we can see a little more constructive discussion and less vitriol now that the election is over. I am hoping Obama gets a nice honeymoon in January. I seem to recall both Bush and Clinton’s were relatively brief.
blurb, i couldn’t agree more on the talking heads. every time i’m in an airport or hotel and fox or msnbc is on and we have these snarky talk show hosts conducting absurd “interviews” i think, whatever happened to dialogue? political argument? what happened to reporting the news rather than editorializing the news? it can’t be good for our society when the fourth branch of government, the people in place to keep the politicians in check, are simply choosing sides.
i steer clear – with john stewart my one occasional exception – only because i think he’s funny as hell. still, i wish, WISH he would bring more conservatives on the show. there are good ideas everywhere.
finally, i have been hearing a lot of talk on npr about the gop needing new vision and new leadership. the rift appears to be between the far right social conservatives that the party pandered to for so terribly long and the more moderate, fiscal conservatives closer to the center. it’s a toss up which way they move. either way, it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.
That map rocks.
P.S. Proud to say Obama took Denver county by 75%. We’re all walking around and high-fiving each other. Literally. Not kidding.
I am happy with the result of the election, and have so much hope that things will change. That being said it is a hard climb out of what happened in the last 8 years. I think that Obama is going to make many changes and I really hope he is up to the job.
I definitely feel that the GOP needs to think about what’s good for all of their party rather that just a few of the extremely conservative.
I love coming here and seeing intelligent conversation about politics rather than any name calling!
I was never gung-ho Obama (Clinton was my candidate for sure) but watching him Tuesday night, I really felt proud to be an American for the first time in a long time. And seeing the pride and hope on the faces of all his supporters was incredibly moving. It was a very important moment for America on so many levels and his humility and dignity won me over entirely.
On Rachel Maddow – I have never found her all that divisive. Sarcastic as hell, and undoubtedly views the news through a liberal lens, but I don’t think it’s fair to categorize her as a lefty O’Reilly. She’s smart, measured, and has a wicked background in political history and policy. O’Reilly just has ill-fitting underpants.
Did you see the Obama campaign behind-the-scenes pictures from election night? They’re not stunning photographically, but it’s a neat perspective.
http://flickr.com/photos/barackobamadotcom/sets/72157608716313371/
interesting…
http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/11/05/2/a-conversation-with-jon-meacham-evan-thomas
certain comments stick out to me. I’ll leave it up to the reader which ones.
I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and promptly moved to France. I had no idea of the ideas and prosperity I’d miss out on, and no idea of the state of the French economy. What can I say? I was in love.
Every presidential ballot I have cast since then has been absentee; this year my (new, not French) husband and I were going to be in France (!) on election day, so we voted early. Absentee.
We fell asleep around 2:30 am French time. McCain had more electoral votes than Obama at that point. I was so worried, but I managed to sleep. At 7:30 in France, 1:30 EST, I got up and turned on the teevee in our apartment. And then I cried.
This comment has nothing to do with your post, except perhaps the map. I’m part of that wee blue bit in central Kentucky. (GO BIG BLUE!) I voted for Barack Obama, fully knowing that my vote would be obliterated by the rest of the state. I’m not from here, but I am at home here, despite the fact that Kentucky veers sharply to the right (thank teh gods for college towns).
Thanks for this forum. I’m a longtime reader, and this is my first time commenting since you laid down some rules.
Have you seen this about the No on 8 supporters being attacked by the mormon samoans?
I think that our old church is going to have this come back to bite them on the ass.
http://tinyurl.com/57nner
The LDS church has never been on the cutting edge of society in terms of women’s rights, minority rights and of course gay rights. Not very inspired leadership going on in SLC.
The map is really interesting Jon. Two comments: 1) It seems to show what a great politician President Clinton was in Arkansas and 2) Although overall Katrina hurt McCain, as it would any Republican, it did change the political landscape of southern Louisiana.
Pragmatically, I completely agree that all of these talking heads do nothing more than fan the flames of their respective demographics’ hatred toward the opposition. They exist so that their respective handlers can sell more commercials, and it is in their own best interest to manufacture controversy out of minutiae (see the “Nancy Reagan seance” headline on Drudge for the past 24 hours; clearly, the most important issue of the day).
And yet …
After living through eight years during which all of my idealism, optimism and faith in our country had been mercilessly beaten to death with no chance (or so I thought) of ever returning, there is something incredibly satisfying about “my side” now being the one that gets to rejoice in our nation’s new reality.
But I can honestly say that the degree to which I want to gloat and wield this victory like a club with which to bludgeon the extreme Right Wingers is very insignificant compared to the degree to which Obama’s election has made me feel unbelievably proud of my country, and has left me hoping that we can all do a better job of coming together as one nation.
(Eight years is a long time, though … and it’s only been a few days since this paradigm shift took place … which is why I just can’t resist saying: Holy fuck, can you believe that we are going from a self-proclaimed C-student who smirks like he just earned a gold sticker for successfully stringing together five scripted words to perhaps the brightest and most inspiring leader of my lifetime? Pinch me. Just pinch me.)
Jon, can you make faydean go away so we can continue the civil discussion that Alison commented on?
You can bet if they’d won, they wouldn’t be saying any of this stuff about Palin. Rethugs need to take a good look in the mirror. They’re all vicious little weasels, including Palin – and they picked her, didn’t vet her, so they should join her under that bus.
PS. for a laugh and a half see http://ideas.rebuildtheparty.com, a veritable wingnut salad with extra loon chunks smothered in sour grape and piss vinegarette.
Obama has turned his sights from McCain to Bush!
“Transition advisers to President-elect Barack Obama have compiled a list of about 200 Bush administration actions and executive orders that could be swiftly undone to reverse White House policies on climate change, stem cell research, reproductive rights and other issues.
Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) said that during Obama’s final swing through her state in October, she reminded him that because the restrictions were never included in legislation, Obama “can simply reverse them by executive order.” Obama, she said, “was very receptive to that.” Opponents of the restrictions have already drafted an executive order he could sign.”
Science is alive and well in America again. Huzzah!