Can We Start Telling the Truth and Have It Really Be The Truth?

Can We Start Telling the Truth and Have It Really Be The Truth?

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Truth. Reality. Apparently the GOP owns them both. By lying and then hearing the lie repeated constantly by everybody, including the supposedly liberal media:

Via: this commenter. Thanks, kadams76!

If only the mainstream media would start calling McCain a liar. Because that is what he is. Continually.

For GOP supporting liars, here’s a direct refutation of the lie that you are telling about Obama wanting to “raise your taxes”:

Tax Cuts for Wealthy Instead of Middle Class: The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans. At the same time, this administration has refused to tackle health care, education and housing in a manner that benefits the middle class.

snip

Obama and Biden will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families:
Obama and Biden will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama and Biden will create a new “Making Work Pay” tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The “Making Work Pay” tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.

Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000:
Barack Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This proposal will eliminate income taxes for 7 million seniors and provide these seniors with an average savings of $1,400 each year. Under the Obama-Biden plan, 27 million American seniors will also not need to file an income tax return.

Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans:
Obama and Biden will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama and Biden will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama-Biden proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

Where did I find this? Not from the “liberal media”. Certainly not from a lying GOP supporting pundit. I found this on BarakObama.com. Specifically, this page.

Who is going to stand up for truth? This is why I keep posting political stuff this season. I can’t fucking stand the lying any more.

  • Homegrown

    Not only that but his tax cuts will benefit 95% of Americans and his middle class tax cut is 3 to 8 times bigger than McCain’s. Also, as if you needed a further sticking point for those who live outside the realm of reality, there’s this:

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_07/014046.php

    Adds up much better than McCain’s. But then again, no surprises there…

  • meowsk

    Fuckers.

    I can’t believe that they actually spin things so it seems like the GOP has a tax break plan for middle-class Americans. When we all know their tax breaks will go to their rich Republican friends.

  • http://onepingonly.blogspot.com/ Maura

    Keep doing what you’re doing. I know I appreciate it.

    The Maddow piece was highly interesting and so well presented. We should all get it out there like this. Thanks.

  • timothylrees

    John~ Love your blog. I am one of those on the fence and not sure who I am going to vote for. It seems like you take up most of your your space telling me why I should NOT vote for McCain. Tell me why I SHOULD vote for Obama.

  • makfan

    Thanks, Jon. I’m sick of the lying, too. I just wish I had more faith in the general public to say enough is enough and vote for Obama in a landslide.

    I like the new Rachel Maddow show. I liked her as a fill-in for Keith Olbermann on Countdown.

  • http://blurbomat.com/wordpress blurb

    @timothylrees, You need look only as far as last week. Obama handled the news of the financial crisis amazingly well. He assembled a committee of financial experts to advise him, he was careful and he spoke in a consistent, measured and eloquent way. He’s not the president yet, but he sure acted like it exhibiting prudence and calm in the middle of a major crisis.

  • habitual

    Well said Blurb….

    It’s difficult to stay on topic and point out the obvious strength in the Democratic campaign this election cycle when the opposing side consumes themselves with spreading lies and more lies (for the record, people still believe he is a muslim terrorist).
    http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/confessions-of-a-sign-hacker/

    I’ve noticed Obama has not buckled to the pressure to ‘play their game’, and I respect him for that. However, that does put much more pressure on those of us supporting him to point out the consistent lies put forth by the GOP / McPhalin campaign. Well done.

  • omichaelmooreo

    Jon,

    thanks for continuously providing not only insight, but also finding outlets that inject a little humor into this whole experience. Kind of one of those “I’ve got to keep laughing, or I’ll start crying” kinds of things.

    I find myself in the same boat– posting all this political stuff because its the most pressing thing I have to say when I start to type. :-)

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/72feetabovesealevel/ michael

    Thanks for posting this. The MSM will start calling liars liars when it is blatantly obvious to everyone that people are liars and they have no other choice but to call them that. Posts like this one are a step in that direction.

  • daephin

    I hadn’t commented before today and I’m sure you won’t miss my readership at all. Hell, I don’t even see the ads on your site 99% of the time, since I usually read through Google Reader in Firefox with AdBlock Plus. That being said, I felt like I ought to let you know that I’m unsubscribing from your feed and I won’t be back until after the election, at which point, I’ll play it by ear. For me, it’s not about whether I agree or disagree with you, but about my not liking a site that I visit for intelligent commentary on random topic turning into a series of righteously indignant rants in which anybody who doesn’t see things your way is seen as a moron.

  • krgosselin

    Bravo. Loved the video.

    @daephin, intelligent commentary is welcome…these posts have nothing to do with mocking the Republican viewpoint and EVERYTHING to do with drawing attention to McCain and how dishonestly he is running his campaign. We’d be having the same discussion if it were Obama doing all the lying (and I’ve cringed at more than one of his half-truths, trust me), with perhaps a tinge more embarrassment.

    That being said, I think Jon will be interested in this (& others): http://www.nationinstitute.org/p/schanberg09182008pt1 . I know, it screams LIBERAL CONSPIRACY THEORY at first glance but the ten key points at the end are pretty damning. I wouldn’t be basing my campaign on my war hero status if I were him…

  • Lesley

    Teh Awesome: Buy My Shitpile! http://www.buymyshitpile.com/

    “With our economy in crisis, the US Government is scrambling to rescue our banks by purchasing their “distressed assets”, i.e., assets that no one else wants to buy from them. We figured that instead of protesting this plan, we’d give regular Americans the same opportunity to sell their bad assets to the government. We need your help and you need the Government’s help!

    Use the form below to submit bad assets you’d like the government to take off your hands. And remember, when estimating the value of your 1997 limited edition Hanson single CD “MMMbop”, it’s not what you can sell these items for that matters, it’s what you think they are worth. The fact that you think they are worth more than anyone will buy them for is what makes them bad assets.”

  • MiniJ

    Hi Jon, have you seen this aspect of the bailout bill? It’s really going underreported.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/22/dirty-secret-of-the-bailo_n_128294.html

    Somewhat related, insofar as it yet another example of the way the GOP feels about democratic due process.

  • abroadallmylife

    I am the complete opposite of daephin: I love coming here and seeing your political commentary. Not enough people pay attention to politics these days, and it’s nice to see blatant lies exposed.

  • Lynn

    Thank you for posting this. I have never been so angry during an election before and I am 31. I moved from Pittsburgh to a small conservative out in the middle of no where town in PA and it is frustrating. I read our “newspaper” and it has a section called 30 seconds. Basically any yahoo can right in and say what they feel. Ugh. It tortures me. The are convinced Obama is a terrorist and his wife hates america. It is exhausting. Unfortunately all the truth and facts in the world will not convince these idiots!

    Obama ’08

  • dross

    If you don’t pay taxes, you can’t get a tax cut, what you get is a check taken from taxes someone else paid. Over 40% of the population pays no income taxes, and 60% pays very little. If you get more “back” from the government than you paid in you are not getting a tax cut you are getting a welfare payment and to call it a tax cut is a lie. For the record, the “rich” got back less as a percentage from the “Bush tax cuts” than they paid in. If you paid more, you got more, though by percentage it was skewed to the lower payer. To divide up the total amount of benefit from the cuts and then say the “rich” got most of it is itself a lie. If I paid $100 in taxes and got back $10 – ten percent – and someone paid $50 and got back $7.50 – fifteen percent – it’s a lie to say that I got more of a tax cut. Finally, if Obama lives up to all the new spending he implies in his speeches and then says he can give 95% of the people a tax cut, he’s telling the biggest whopper of the campaign.

  • http://blurbomat.com/wordpress blurb

    @dross, ???

    Read this and get back to me:
    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/election_issues_matrix.cfm

    You are joking, right? Your numbers don’t add up. Nor do your accusations.

  • habitual

    Yes, dross….it’s only those pesky poor people who don’t pay taxes. It’s never, ever the rich trying to get out of paying Federal taxes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_and_Elaine_Brown

    http://www.nhpr.org/node/13434

    You might think about moving to New Hampshire, there’s no sales tax and no income tax…and no public services! Live Free or Die and all that good stuff….lock and load.

  • habitual

    MSM is starting to do a little fact checking of its own. Keep up the good work Blurb!

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/23/fact-check-does-obama-want-to-ban-guns-and-rifles/#more-20006

  • Heather

    Thank you for posting this – it really is exactly how I am feeling.

  • dross

    blurb,

    Which of my numbers don’t add up? The example I used of the “Bush cuts” were not exact numbers, but illustrated the principle the cuts followed. If you’d like me to look up the exact numbers to prove my point I will. The principle will remain the same. In the meantime, here’s my answer to your link:

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/09/17/obama-tax-cutter-or-tax-hiker/

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/minxlj minxlj

    The media needs to demand that Palin be interviewed, for a start! This kind of debacle, just a few weeks from the elections, is startling. The lies are building and building, and it seems that not enough people are actually questioning them :-(

  • http://blurbomat.com/wordpress blurb

    @dross, My link was non-partisan. Your partisan link is biased.

    Bottom line: Obama gives a bigger tax cut than McCain for the middle class. You can try to obfuscate that fact, but your obfuscation is merely a smoke screen for reality.

  • nobody

    Much of Obama’s cut is actually a payment. The breaks are refundable credits and available even to those who don’t have a tax bill — and many of those targeted don’t.

    He’s raising income taxes on higher incomes, taxes on capital gains and dividends, and hinted at raising payroll taxes on higher incomes. He’s raising myriad taxes on business — windfall profits on oil companies, rearrangement of income earned in other countries, etc. Except last week he admitted that income tax increases are bad for growth and maybe he’ll hold those until the economy recovers.

    Bottom line, he’s raising taxes on people who aren’t his constituency and giving the money to people who are. It might work as politics, but doesn’t encourage the growth needed to give people jobs.

  • dross

    blurb,

    The Tax Policy Center, which you call non-partisan, is a joint venture between the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, which are left-leaning think tanks. I believe the Tax Policy Center is biased, so we get nowhere with that. I wasn’t attempting to address which tax cut is better for the middle class. The assertion I was arguing against in my comment was:

    “here’s a direct refutation of the lie that you are telling about Obama wanting to ‘raise your taxes’”,

    which appears in the original post. The poster used the Obama campaign web site to back up Obama’s assertion that he is cutting rather than raising taxes, and then goes on to use that as “proof” that McCain is lying. You can dice it any way you want, but under Obama middle class taxes will be higher than they are today. In order to say that isn’t so, he assumes that the tax cuts currently in effect won’t be extended, which they most certainly will. You call McCain a liar for saying that Obama will raise taxes, which his plan will, unless you define tax cuts as raising taxes on middle and upper payers, and giving checks to lower level non-payers.

    Even the Tax Policy Center which you cite says in their analysis of the two tax plans in their “An Updated Analysis of the 2008
    Presidential Candidates’ Tax Plans” says,
    “In several important ways, the candidates’ speeches and web sites differ from the plans as we’ve outlined them above, and, in several cases, descriptions of proposals provided by campaign advisors strike us as implausible.”

    That’s a nice way of saying BOTH candidates are lying.

    If I pay more total taxes today than I do tomorrow, then my taxes have been raised not cut and to say otherwise is a lie.

  • http://www.eleventwentyseven.com christine1127

    @dross said That’s a nice way of saying BOTH candidates are lying.

    Exactly.

    I challenge anyone following either candidate to read this book. It’s a fast read and will encourage intellectual thinking about our government. Not government-bashing or conspiracy theory stuff, but eye-opening truths about how things ought to be. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0446537519/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

    It seems as though both sides are naively following their party, when in reality, both sides are exactly the same. We’re screwed no matter who wins.

  • dross

    christine1127,

    I don’t agree with either party and neither candidate would be my choice – however, unless you are a libertarian absolutist and insist that any deviation from the purist line is the same as any other, I think you’d have to admit that if socialism is the opposite of libertarianism, then Obama is much worse than McCain. McCain is far from good, but when the choice is deadly poison or poison that will just keep us the same amount of sick, I’ll pass on the deadly poison every time.

  • http://blurbomat.com/wordpress blurb

    @dross, The Tax Policy Center gets its numbers from the Urban Institute, which is non-partisan. Brookings, I’ll give you. Urban Institute I won’t. And yes they have updated their numbers. And those revised numbers still show that for MOST people, particularly those in the middle class, they will get a better break on taxes under Obama:

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?template=simulation&SimID=266

    Those numbers are run for several different scenarios; elderly, married filing jointly (with mortgage, without mortgage), etc. I’d invite you to take a look at table T08-0211 and T08-0210. Here’s the executive summary which you misrepresented (a nice way of saying…) in your comment:

    “Obama would give larger tax cuts to low- and moderate-income households and pay some of the cost by raising taxes on high-income taxpayers. In contrast, McCain would cut taxes across the board and give the biggest cuts to the highest-income households.”

    You are making some spectacular leaps in logic. Spectacularly wrong. You haven’t proven any of your assertions. Merely asserting something isn’t proof. The link above has downloadable spreadsheets that show the two plans side by side, downloadable in PDF or Excel format. All we have from you are preachings about libertarianism and how everybody is lying.

    I’ll grant you that during these election seasons, truth is pushed and pulled by all parties. I assume that you’ll be voting for a write-in or candidate from another party than the majority.

    My point in the original post is that McCain has pushed it too far. It’s one thing to say what you hope will be true given your plan. It’s quite another to attempt to remake reality through massive deception, using the media to aid you in said deception.

    dross, the truth of the matter is that the only way we’ll get out of debt is if we pay our way out. Obama is saying he’ll cut taxes for most Americans. Based on independent analysis and words he hasn’t changed, he says he’ll stick to it as President. Portraying Obama as a tax and spend liberal is old and inappropriate language.

    What part of my statement is incorrect? I’d love to read another non-partisan analysis that paints a different picture. Please share if you are able.

  • dross

    blurb,

    Here’s a set of facts, not assertions:

    1. Obama’s tax cuts are based on the premise that the current tax cuts will expire and not be extended.
    2. Most taxpayers (meaning people who actually pay income taxes) will pay more the first year under Obama’s plan than they paid the year previous. That’s a tax increase, not a cut.
    3. The bottom 50% of taxpayers paid less than three percent of the total income taxes collected in the most recent year for which there is data, 2006.
    4. If you give a check to a citizen for an amount that is more than they paid in taxes – a major part of Obama’s plan – it is income redistribution, not a tax cut.

    If you take exception to any of the above facts, I will produce supporting evidence.

    My opinion: Calling a welfare payment a tax cut is a bigger lie than any McCain has told.

  • http://blurbomat.com/wordpress blurb

    @dross,

    Stating your personal beliefs isn’t proving anything to me. I also disagree that it’s a “welfare” payment. That’s just you hung up.

    You’ll need to use more than your personal convictions to persuade me that Obama is lying. You haven’t presented any facts to dispute. You’ve only presented your erroneous opinion.

    Sounds like we’re just going to have to disagree. You can do any number of denial gymnastics. It still doesn’t make your beliefs correct.

  • dross

    blurb,

    I’ll assume from your response that you don’t disagree that Obama’s plan calls for giving a check to some citizens that is greater than the amount they paid in income taxes.

    If you don’t see that as income distribution or a welfare payment, so be it.

    If I concede that you can honestly believe that a payment to someone who doesn’t even pay income taxes is a tax cut, will you concede that someone can honestly believe (and therefore not be a liar as was asserted) that if they pay more in taxes than they did the year before their taxes were raised, not cut?